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Original – St Luke's Church in Frampton Mansell was built in 1843 by Lord Bathurst. The church sits on the top of a deep valley within the Cotswolds. The Italian style design is by J. Parish. There are a set of original five stained glass windows within the apse with one dedicated to Christ and one each for the apostles Matthew, Mark, Luke and John. St Luke's Church is an English Heritage Grade II Listed Building
Reason
An attractive setting for quaint church with a lengthy lineage.
Support -- Quaint is a great description. I love how you've included the drop in front of the church, great for showing the environs. Crisco 1492 (talk) 03:19, 23 March 2012 (UTC)[reply]
I think that the angle of the sun makes the wall's surface particularly contrasty; I'm not seeing anything that jumps out as a sharpening or noise-suppression artifact. TenOfAllTrades(talk) 14:46, 23 March 2012 (UTC)[reply]
Support. Nicely taken, once again. I'd like to get out into the countryside a bit more and do something similar. There are a lot of beautiful old buildings (churches or otherwise) in pretty natural settings. You've clearly gone out of your way to find a pleasing composition. Ðiliff«»(Talk)10:21, 27 March 2012 (UTC)[reply]
Comment I have added this image to two additional under-illustrated articles where it also carries significant EV; cornet (as an example of the instrument in use) and brass instrument (as the only example of a brass instrument actually being played!). - ZephyrisTalk11:13, 24 March 2012 (UTC)[reply]
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Original – Jessica Ennis, MBE performing the long jump at the Yorkshire Track and Field Championships 2010. Ennis is the current European and former World heptathlon champion and is the former world indoor pentathlon champion.
Reason
A current and popular young British athlete doing one of the things she does best. Focus is satisfyingly straight on her face and the image has been the lead in her article since at least May last year.
Weak Support for Jessica Ennis, oppose for long jump. A good action shot of her doing the jump, but for long jump we don't get to see the entire sandpit area or runway, which would allow us to put it into context. We don't know from this photo that she's doing a long jump as opposed to just any old jump. Matthewedwards : Chat 22:26, 22 March 2012 (UTC)[reply]
The long jump article is under-illustrated, and this picture has been placed carefully in the section that describes the final part of the jump, so it's entirely relevant to that content. Other pictures would do a better job of illustrating the sandpit, but this one doesn't have to. Also, there's no need to oppose because of one article placement as long as the EV is present elsewhere? Strange way to vote. Julia\talk22:41, 22 March 2012 (UTC)[reply]
I think the general assumption is that since articles are to be put in order of greatest to least EV, where greatest EV usually coincides with narrowest scope, that the narrowest scope will be the nominal one at WP:FP listing. In the rare case that the greatest EV is for the article about the creator (notable artist/photographer), the second best may be included for variety. Papa Lima Whiskey 2 (talk) 08:53, 23 March 2012 (UTC)[reply]
Weak oppose due to motion blur. Fine for an action shot, I guess, but not exactly the best way to identify someone. Honestly, I got an instant headache looking at it, although it's not as bad as an image I've seen at FPC on Commons. Crisco 1492 (talk) 02:00, 23 March 2012 (UTC)[reply]
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Original – Diego Velázquez' Christ Crucified, a frontal nude showing Jesus on the cross. The painting, which measures 170 cm × 249 cm (67 in × 98 in), is thought to date from 1631 or 1632.
Reason
High resolution, good quality, notable (if not iconic) work by a famous artist
oppose This is a stitched image so the high-resolution is to be expected. Indeed it is probably downsampled but I have no problem with that given that it is 20MP. Unfortunately the quality has deteriorated since the first upload. The second upload (apparently to fix stitching errors) has a significantly lower JPG quality and strong JPG artefacts are visible in the sky. In fact, even the first image would benefit from a higher JPG quality level to avoid gnats around high-contrast areas. The second upload involved a strong adjustment, presumably from this JPG, which is a no-no. This has just emphasised the JPG artefacts in the sky, which are visible even at normal screen resolution. This image could be rescued if the original photographer could upload a higher-quality JPG, along with the later adjustments that improve the levels. Colin°Talk22:05, 31 March 2012 (UTC)[reply]
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Original – A population of Yeti Crabs Kiwa n. sp. in near a hydrothermal vent. Scale bar is equivalent to 10cm in the foreground. Unsharp areas in the image highlight hot gas being emitted from the vents, which feeds bacteria that the Yeti Crabs eat.
Reason
One of the elements of our systemic bias is that we under-feature marine material, especially from the extreme deep. This was taken at a depth of 2602m, and shows a population of Yeti Crabs (white) going about their business around a hydrothermal vent. The image also shows species of Vulcanolepas and Peltospiroidea, which are annotated.
For FP, I think a picture without the bar would be better. It's on a busy background, so we're losing detail. For images on a plain background, fine. For this... I don't think it works, from a composition standpoint. Crisco 1492 (talk) 15:16, 24 March 2012 (UTC)[reply]
I don't see how you can give any sense of scale to it otherwise. Like I said, this was accepted for publication in PLoS, so the scale was either requested or accepted by two or three academic peer reviewers (not sure how many PLoS requires). Removing it gains very little, because you'd have to clone in the background - or get original copy from the researchers. Papa Lima Whiskey 2 (talk) 11:59, 25 March 2012 (UTC)[reply]
And that's exactly why it's explicitly stated that the scale applies to the foreground. You may have realised that background sizes can be roughly estimated on the basis that the crabs in the background aren't, in reality, smaller than the ones in the foreground. Your argument really makes no sense to me - it's the equivalent of saying because we can't represent ultraviolet in human vision, let's have no colour photography at all. Papa Lima Whiskey 2 (talk) 09:13, 30 March 2012 (UTC)[reply]
I don't think we need to make ourselves stupider than we are. It's pretty clear to me where the foreground is. I understand you may have felt your feathers ruffled by suggestions that you should include scales in some of your images in the past. I stand by the need for them. Papa Lima Whiskey 2 (talk) 17:07, 3 April 2012 (UTC)[reply]
I have to agree here, at these depths and water conditions the thickness of glass necessary to keep the camera from turning into a mini-crushed version of it's self poses some limitations in quality one can reasonably expect. That and the rareness of such an image, people RARELY visit these locations, and its LIKELY next time someone does visit this area could be barren and may NEVER be photographed again. Thermal vents and the associated communities are very temporary, and not a lot of people are researching them and have the funding to afford to dive on them. Some technical images one has to be a bit forgiving in the image quality, and even size in some cases like many space photographs that are featured pictures, or ones like File:Pale_Blue_Dot.png which doesn't even come close to size requirements but is clearly something that should be featured because we likely will never get an image like that again. — raekyt00:21, 26 March 2012 (UTC)[reply]
Voting period is over. Please don't add any new votes. Voting period ends on 31 Mar 2012 at 00:52:40 (UTC)
Original – A propaganda poster from World War I, which depicts German soldiers nailing a man to a tree, as American soldiers come to his rescue. It is based on the The Crucified Soldier, a Canadian soldier who was rumoured to have been nailed to a door or treeEdit – A more invasive restoration, with adjusted curves which somehow resulted in a sharper and more vibrant poster.
The Spanish text means the same thing as the English text, the poster was most likely used in some bilingual areas. I didn't see any commentary on it at loc: [1]. Jujutacular (talk) 12:25, 22 March 2012 (UTC)[reply]
Without knowing the historic background of the image's unusual use of both English and Spanish, it's hard to see what it's EV is. As such, I'm regretfully going to oppose this nomination on EV ground. Nick-D (talk) 09:42, 23 March 2012 (UTC)[reply]
OK that helps, without more information it's hard to judge the EV of the image though. As such, I'm moving to neutral. Nick-D (talk) 09:43, 26 March 2012 (UTC)[reply]
Oppose We have at last count 11 FPs of Allied propaganda material and none for the Central Powers. I consider this a huge problem for Wikipedia's objectivity, to be rectified before we promote any more Allied material. Papa Lima Whiskey 2 (talk) 17:57, 22 March 2012 (UTC)[reply]
Isn't this just a function of availability as opposed to some other agenda? Particularly so since this is English Wikipedia. A great image with EV should always be open for consideration. Otherwise we will get rules like too many butterflies not enough moths, stop promoting hummingbirds until we have more crows. Saffron Blaze (talk) 21:48, 22 March 2012 (UTC)[reply]
Exactly. Most German and other Central propoganda we have is of a very low resolution (the German archives gave us fairly small files, not like what is accessible through the LOC). Crisco 1492 (talk) 21:58, 22 March 2012 (UTC)[reply]
Availability has little to do with it. We often oppose things not because something better is available, but because something better *could be* available. So saying we have lots of stuff in LOC is absolutely no excuse for systemic bias. Papa Lima Whiskey 2 (talk) 22:11, 22 March 2012 (UTC)[reply]
Availability does indeed have much to do with it. I find it odd you would argue otherwise. If the LOC gives Wiki hundreds of high quality images with good EV they should be judged on their own merit not predicated on the fact that the German Archives (or any other agency) didn't do the same. If they had I suspect we'd see more of them getting nominated. I'd love to see more German and Russian ones but if they aren't available I am not going to penalise the ones that do get nominated. Moreover, I am not convinced something better *could be* available actually applies to these particular posters. Saffron Blaze (talk) 22:23, 22 March 2012 (UTC)[reply]
You should do more research before lunging into hyperbolic claims. Bundesarchiv has nothing to do with it as for all we know they have no appropriate images. Nor is LOC our only source for Allied images, so please stop implying this. Contentedness with having the victors write history is simply not an acceptable position for an encyclopedia. Papa Lima Whiskey 2 (talk) 22:31, 22 March 2012 (UTC)[reply]
The subject this has the most EV in is a decisively Allied one. I'd love a good quality Central poster; if I find one I'll be sure to nominate it. I just don't think we should penalise this one because we have many other propaganda posters. Would we say "too much da Vinci" if someone nominated another da Vinci work (or Goya, since that's what I've been digging up recently) Crisco 1492 (talk) 22:35, 22 March 2012 (UTC)[reply]
Yes, actually, you have been nominating too much Goya and Whistler recently, and I stopped just short of making this a topic of conversation on the talk page. You're dragging this discussion into off topic territory, however. I'm deliberately making note of this. Papa Lima Whiskey 2 (talk) 23:41, 22 March 2012 (UTC)[reply]
PLW, my premise is simply that more good quality Allied posters seem more readily availble than those of the Central Powers. Their sources or lack thereof are irrelevant to the discussion and I wasn't implying anything other than offering an example. If in your extensive research there is indeed high quality posters then they can be brought forward for nomination. It might help us avoid further hyperbolic statements like *Victors write history*. Saffron Blaze (talk) 23:01, 22 March 2012 (UTC)[reply]
No hyperbole on my part - see e.g. Philosophy of history#Historical accounts of writing history. I don't remotely understand how you can place the burden of providing materials on the occupied nation itself. The bottom line is you can't expect to make a good encyclopedia only from materials that conveniently drop into your lap, you have to put some actual effort into it. This may involve finding materials that aren't in the LoC. Papa Lima Whiskey 2 (talk) 23:41, 22 March 2012 (UTC)[reply]
Good golly, you actually felt the need to lecture me. Look, I am not placing a burden on anyone. It should be readily apparent to you that people contribute what interests them. As such this encylopedia is wholly dependent on what drops in its lap. It may not be ideal but it is what we have to work with so make the most of it. When a source comes forward with hundreds of Central Powers propaganda posters I hope you'll be here to ensure we don't go too apeshit over it. I suggest you go look for them because I will be too busy taking pretty little pictures of old churches and forcing an Anglican agenda on this hapless encylopedia. Saffron Blaze (talk) 01:24, 23 March 2012 (UTC)[reply]
Forcing an Anglican agenda? With all the British editors here, I hardly think that's necessary... Besides, I like the pictures of churches I see here. Crisco 1492 (talk) 01:34, 23 March 2012 (UTC)[reply]
Support edit Good reproduction and good EV. This picture is used in several places by WP and passes the criteria, so it deserves FP status. PLW, if you want to complain about our Anglican cabal, go find several of the high-rez, good quality Central posters, bring them here, and let us promote them. If we shoot them down because they're from the Central powers, then you can complain about systemic bias. Clegs (talk) 08:29, 23 March 2012 (UTC)[reply]
Other images would be good. However, the article caption starts with 'American propaganda poster depicting ...'. This largely takes care of the NPOV problem - the reader is made aware that the image is not a neutral depiction. JJ Harrison (talk) 22:14, 26 March 2012 (UTC)[reply]
Support. I don't get the systemic bias charge. We feature the good pictures that are available. We can't feature what we don't have, and it's not a zero-sum game: featuring any one image does not make it less likely that another image with a different subject will be featured. Chick Bowen05:45, 27 March 2012 (UTC)[reply]
The problem is that we have 11 FPs of Allied propaganda already. We have absolutely none, zilch, zero for the Central Powers. If this doesn't strike you as a huge imbalance, I don't know what will. We're not talking about butterflies, mind you - we're talking about propaganda. Papa Lima Whiskey 2 (talk) 09:27, 27 March 2012 (UTC)[reply]
I spent about 30 minutes earlier today looking for high quality Soviet Posters. I saw one or two, but they were not definitely free. Crisco 1492 (talk) 13:09, 27 March 2012 (UTC)[reply]
Support we run into the WP:FS issue here. What happens when there is a high quality file that we have several of the same time of? Since the imbalence isn't that high, I will go with a support. --Guerillero | My Talk14:15, 28 March 2012 (UTC)[reply]
Voting period is over. Please don't add any new votes. Voting period ends on 3 Apr 2012 at 00:37:46 (UTC)
Original – Grant DeVolson Wood's American Gothic, one of the most familiar images in 20th century American art. It is an oil painting on beaverboard and measures 74.3 cm × 62.4 cm (29¼ in × 24½ in).
Voting period is over. Please don't add any new votes. Voting period ends on 3 Apr 2012 at 13:04:37 (UTC)
Original – British comedian Zoe Lyons in March 2009
Reason
Like the Chris Martin image below, this photo of notable comedian Zoe Lyons has been donated by photographer Steve Ullathorne. It is of high quality and represents her anarchic sense of humour quite well.
Support edit Great pic. I've made a crop which I think improves the composition. The crop now obeys the rule of thirds vertically (on the open eye), and it gives equal space to the left and right of the arms. --99of9 (talk) 07:52, 3 April 2012 (UTC)[reply]
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Original – British comedian Chris Martin in September 2009
Reason
This high-quality, professional image has kindly been donated to the Wikimedia Foundation by photographer Steve Ullathorne. The photo clearly indentifies Chris Martin (no, not that one), and has been released through the OTRS.
Oppose I don't like the tiny crop off his hair or the unbalanced crop of his arms. The background with the chairline matching his hairline is distracting. Otherwise it is a great pose and technically very good. Colin°Talk16:39, 25 March 2012 (UTC)[reply]
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Original – A diagram of Earth’s location in the Universe in a series of eight maps that show from left to right, starting with the Earth, moving to the Solar System, onto the Solar Interstellar Neighborhood, onto the Milky Way, onto the Local Galactic Group, onto the Virgo Supercluster, onto our local superclusters, and finishing at the observable Universe.
Reason
Crisp, encyclopedic, interesting, surprised it hasn't been nominated before.
CommentUser:Azcolvin429 is the original creator of this image. It appears Ras67 uploaded an edited version. I wonder if this should be in png format because it's a diagram, and one that is comprised of 8 files that were all originally pngs. Matthewedwards : Chat 04:03, 26 March 2012 (UTC)[reply]
Conditional support The word "superclusters" in "local superclusters" and perhaps "interstellar neighborhood" should be decapitalized since they aren't proper names and the word "sol" is redundant. Btw, Google Chrome dealt well with the resolution. Brandmeistertalk10:29, 26 March 2012 (UTC)[reply]
Oppose The individual pictures are great but I don't think it is useful in this format. File:Earth's Location in the Universe SMALLER (JPEG).jpg has a more useful 4x2 format and a perfectly adequate size for both screen and printing up to A3 format. Using the Interactive large-image-viewer (flash-based) on my Firefox browser gives the most awful lossy JPG quality, and the non-flash one doesn't seem to work at all. I can download the full size image but it is a bugger to work with: to view the sequence, one has to pan right, but to do that reasonably, you have to reduce the size to fit the screen, which makes the ridiculously high resolution kind of pointless. If someone really is going to print poster sized images then they'll print the individual ones. I think there are better ways of presenting this kind of image. Colin°Talk21:05, 26 March 2012 (UTC)[reply]
Update: on a different computer I'm not getting the awful JPG artefacts with the flash viewer. But the Virgo Supercluster image has banding and the other issues still apply. Colin°Talk22:13, 31 March 2012 (UTC)[reply]
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Original – Durga Puja in College Square, Kolkata, 2011.
Reason
Wikimedia/Wikipedia is fortunate to have some or many good quality images; they're more Here's a chance I would not like to lose to recognise this as a good image from the world of religions. Perhaps for those who are not at all that familiar with Durga Puja: also referred to as Durgotsava , is an annual Hindu festival in South Asia-especially in Bengal-that celebrates worship and pays homage to the Hindu Goddess Durga. The gleaming idol of the deity and the supreme power makes this one a keeper, according to me.......this for me is the actual face of Kolkata, the City of Joy which never stops it for me is the city of cities and Durga Puja for me is the festivals of festivals and Maa Durga for me is the Supreme Power...well remember that God is One....irrespective of religions!!
Oppose -- Comment first: this has not been in the article for a week, so it should not be nominated yet. Opposing reason: composition. Her headdress is cut off, as are many of her hands. Crisco 1492 (talk) 13:52, 26 March 2012 (UTC)[reply]
Comment With the articles being rather over-illustrated, I worry that some images will eventually be removed. I removed an unreferenced map from one of the articles today, and this was followed by Tito stating the same concern [2]. We don't really want to promote images in situations where they're likely to turn orphans shortly afterwards. Papa Lima Whiskey 2 (talk) 17:09, 29 March 2012 (UTC)[reply]
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Original – A full house at the old Metropolitan Opera House, seen from the rear of the stage, for a concert by pianist Josef Hofmann, November 28, 1937
There's something quite odd about it. The blacks in the aisles are so black, and there's maybe some lens distortion too: the people next to the aisles look like paper cutouts. This is a newspaper shot and it probably was airbushed (I mean literally, not the photoshop tool) to look better in newsprint (see this picture, particularly the eyes, for the kinds of things they used to do). EV is definitely high, as this is maybe the most important demolished theater in New York, and, though I seem to have a picture of the stage in my own collection, I haven't seen too many of the house (there are a few non-free ones on the internet, though, like this, so they exist). I'm torn. Chick Bowen05:31, 27 March 2012 (UTC)[reply]
Oppose per Chick Bowen. I agonized over this one. I know it's non-repeatable and has very high EV, but it's so highly edited and poorly exposed that I can't in good conscience support. Clegs (talk) 18:17, 2 April 2012 (UTC)[reply]
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Original – Raphael Matos at the Indianapolis Motor Speedway in the garage area for the 2011 race.Edit #1 – Edited to remove crew member from upper left background.
Reason
Well-composed, natural, high-resolution photo of Raphael Matos wearing his racing gear and with an appropriate back-drop for the subject.
Very POINT-y. I read both (note that I didn't complain about the car tires). The team member is extraneous, cut off, and distracting. Crisco 1492 (talk) 14:17, 27 March 2012 (UTC)[reply]
Neutral weighted towards oppose. Hands are cut off, distracting orange blob in the upper left corner. Yes, I know it's a crew member, but it still looks like a distracting orange blob. And Let's please keep our comments to the picture at hand, not how we feel about other people's actions on other recent noms. Clegs (talk) 10:21, 28 March 2012 (UTC)[reply]
Reviewers should consider it their obligation to read the opening statement and caption, and if they evidently do not, they should be reminded of the need to do so. Papa Lima Whiskey 2 (talk) 12:45, 28 March 2012 (UTC)[reply]
I'm willing to edit out the crew member in the background (I think it can be done cleanly); would that be within the 'minimal editing' bounds of the guidelines? Nave.notnilc (talk) 17:51, 28 March 2012 (UTC)[reply]
Support edit 1 only. The edit to remove the "orange blob" has been skilfully done and greatly improves the portrait. What was all that fuss about. Colin°Talk22:19, 31 March 2012 (UTC)[reply]
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A depiction of Andersonville Prison by John L. Ransom, author of Andersonville Diary, Escape and List of the Dead.
Legend
Areas of the prison as labelled by Ransom:
1. Head Quarters, 2. Rebel Camp. 3. Hospital, 4. Cook House, 5. Death House, 6. Death Line, 7. The Island, 8. Sutler's Camp, 9. Police Quarters.
10. Hospitals along the Death Line. 11. Market Street, 12. Broad Street, 13. Inside Stockade, 14. Second Line Stockade, 15. Third Line Stockade, 16. Lieut. Head Quarters, 17. Washing Place, 18. Rifle Pits, 19. Astor House Mess.
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Reason
High resolution, good quality, valuable depiction of the subject
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Original – Map showing air attacks on Japan during the Second World War (1945)Edit 1 – Recolour (no topography), fix typos, add long/lat amounts.
Reason
SVG format; complicated information that is not easily replicated in text form; clear presentation; standard colours; very informative to the reader; US military source.
Comment -- Just up by Hokkaido, 'Tomaxomai' should be 'Tomakomai', 'Uckiura' should be 'Uchiura', and 'Haxodate' should be 'Hakodate'. There might be a few more too. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 71.92.107.191 (talk) 02:45, 28 March 2012 (UTC)[reply]
Edit 1 now uploaded. (Some of the original labels were very hard to read; if I've made any more transcription errors, I will not hesitate to correct them. However, the IP's ones were the actually the ones I was most unsure of.) Grandiose(me, talk, contribs) 10:48, 28 March 2012 (UTC)[reply]
I did for the dozen or so I thought I'd got wrong - the ones pointed out were next in line. I don't have the few hours doing all of them would take. Grandiose(me, talk, contribs) 13:13, 28 March 2012 (UTC)[reply]
Support edit 1 I made a couple of minor edits to the shading, aquatic typeface etc. I also smoothed out the latitude lines that I mentioned on your talk page (forgive me for being presumptuous but I assumed you didn't understand what I was talking about there). Hope that's okay. Matthewedwards : Chat 18:06, 28 March 2012 (UTC)[reply]
Support edit 1 This is an excellent map, and a big improvement on the US military original. I'm very grateful for Grandiose developing this for the Air raids on Japan article (which is currently at FAC). My only comment is that 'Sasebp' on Kyushu should be 'Sasebo' Nick-D (talk) 23:25, 28 March 2012 (UTC)[reply]
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Original – A screenshot of the combat system for the upcoming video game The Banner Saga. The characters take turns moving on the grid board and attacking (the mage is attacking in this shot). Also visible are enemy knights and Viking warriors.
Reason
Something completely different this time: a freely licensed, fairly high quality screenshot of a video game. I like the artistic style, and the EV is high as it shows us the game's combat system
Comment Not seeing it - the fact that it's turn-based is not at all evident in the screenshot, and there is little evidence of a "combat system". Also seems to be vaporware so far - who knows if this will ever be finished and distributed? For all we know, the article was written solely to justify the screenshots (presumably stuck in OTRS for three days), and to top things off, the screenshots haven't even been in the article for seven days! Papa Lima Whiskey 2 (talk) 14:50, 27 March 2012 (UTC)[reply]
Oppose. I am intrigued by the visual style and I wish this new, indie studio well—but I am reluctant to Feature content related to game software so soon after its public announcement, still several months from its anticipated release (See WP:CRYSTALBALL, Duke Nukem Forever) and potentially subject to substantial change or delay. For an illustration of a combat system, the dark knights aren't really doing very much, with their weapons held low and a lack of...engagement between the melee characters; is this likely to accurately represent the appearance of the final product, or is this an artifact of the game's early stage of development? Is the mage's spell about to do something really exciting in the next few seconds? TenOfAllTrades(talk) 16:03, 30 March 2012 (UTC)[reply]
Oppose Don't see the encyclopedic value... Once the game is released, there is probably going to be 1,000 videos on YouTube in the first week, and an innumerable number of screenshots online. This one is not anymore significant then any other. Dusty77716:57, 30 March 2012 (UTC)[reply]
"Not promotion" -- Entire project was CC from the get go, not OTRS. Interested parties can download a higher quality version from the official website and share it for free; we are not on the receiving end of promotion.
"collections of photographs or media files" -- We have an article, with several RS backing it up. This would do better in the "plot" section, but it would clash with the infobox on low-resolution monitors.
Can't think of anything else that would remotely fit. "Summary-only descriptions of works"? We have design and reception info. "Journalism", "Who's who", "a diary", "Internet guides", "Academic language." "Genealogical entries." etc.? Out of left field, no relevance to this media file. Crisco 1492 (talk) 15:04, 27 March 2012 (UTC)[reply]
First of all, license has nothing to do with intention. Just because something has the same license we do, doesn't mean we, as an NPOV encyclopedia, have a reason to promote it. Secondly, WP is neither a movie streaming site nor the Oscars, so what is this doing here? Thirdly, you make the very good point that Wikipedia does not offer the best viewing experience for this, so we're not even doing the users a favour. Much better to link to offsite hosting that's geared towards displaying such media. Papa Lima Whiskey 2 (talk) 18:45, 27 March 2012 (UTC)[reply]
WP:NOT does not cover streaming or "the Oscars", so policy-wise this is acceptable. For encyclopedic value, we have the plot of the film (which is a key part to articles on works of fiction). For the quality of the video, there are links to higher quality video feeds from the file. We are limited by the software limitations, and should not, for example in a nomination for File:Van Gogh - Starry Night - Google Art Project.jpg, say "Oppose, higher resolution versions available". We should work within the file size limits and not expect something the software doesn't support.
Regarding "Promotionalness", how old would a film have to be before we considered featuring it not promotional? Fifty years? 100? Do genres count, say a documentary is less promotional than a feature film? If so, that's biased. If a high quality version of A Free Ride could be found, should it be promoted, or would we be giving the filmmaker free advertising? If you are worried about any "advertising" vibes, we could just not show the file on the main page. Crisco 1492 (talk) 04:50, 28 March 2012 (UTC)[reply]
Oppose I agree with PLW2 that this fails WP:NOT in my opinion (particularly WP:NOTREPOSITORY). I may try an AfD but the bar for deletion is low and it is also on Commons, which takes months to delete things had has an even lower bar than WP. So this is some barely notably fantasy story, but let's say it was An Inconvenient Truth and that got released under an appropriate licence? It would be deleted before you could blink. Our articles should be about a subject, not be the subject. Images and other media should be selected to educate the reader about the subject, not require them to view the whole thing. I have no problem with the article linking to the full and best-quality video, hosted elsewhere. Colin°Talk07:53, 30 March 2012 (UTC)[reply]
Not sure what level of linking you had in mind, but it's pretty clear that Blender Foundation output would be starting to get pretty crowded by now - three films and a video game that exists in two major variants, presumably with trailers - you'll eventually hit a limit in terms of acceptable direct linking from the Blender Foundation article. Papa Lima Whiskey 2 (talk) 11:05, 30 March 2012 (UTC)[reply]
I wasn't aware that WP was bound by such limits. When an article section gets too big a dedicated article would be created or a category on Commons with all the relevant media files could be used. This is getting ahead of ourselves though. The question is whether this is suitable content for a Wikipedia article. The material is within scope on Commons and useful for highlighting what Blender can do. Saffron Blaze (talk) 12:13, 30 March 2012 (UTC)[reply]
I agree Commons has differnet rules. It quite clearly isn't encyclopaedic content, which as I said is about as subject rather than being a subject. On Commons, the requirement is that media be for an educational purpose, which is defined as "providing knowledge; instructional or informative". This film, in its entirity rather than merely clips, does not satisfy that requirement. It is not an educational film. The "highlighting what Blender can do" is satisifed within seconds. Colin°Talk13:07, 30 March 2012 (UTC)[reply]
It is not clear to me this film doesn't meet the the stadard of being encyclopaedic content. While the extent of that value is open for debate I would tend to leave that judgement to those that have interest in the film and the Blender software. The part I don't get is where you imply a short clip would be sufficient. What purpose would supplying a short clip achieve when the full file is readily available? ...other than restricting the user's choice in the matter. Saffron Blaze (talk) 14:22, 30 March 2012 (UTC)[reply]
The same reason that a TV program about a film shows clips of the film. Or an academic book about a novel doesn't contain the entire text of the novel. We explicitly don't allow this for text. For example, one doesn't find the entire text of Pride and Prejudice in the encyclopaedia article (but we do link to the WikiSource and a number of other externally hosted alternatives). The main reason WP:NOTREPOSITORY only says "entire books" and not "entire books, albums or films" is that the latter have been very unlikely to be freely licensed so this hasn't been a problem. Perhaps it is time that was made clearer. Colin°Talk15:09, 30 March 2012 (UTC)[reply]
Don't get the analogy to books. It's not as if the content of a movie is forced on a page as it would be with the text of a book. Are you saying that emedding a link to the full text of the book is wrong? If so then I suppose embedding a link to the full content of a video file would be wrong too. Saffron Blaze (talk) 15:22, 30 March 2012 (UTC)[reply]
I think there is more than a semantic difference between the two conditions of having an orginal source text document in an article and the option of pressing a button (or clicking a link) to retrieve a media file. This difference should allow for handling of the material differently as well. I will say that there seems little merit in having the actual file on WP and Commons. Saffron Blaze (talk) 18:39, 30 March 2012 (UTC)[reply]
Turns out that Commons can't delete the movie because Wikipedia uses it. And Wikipedian's are using it because Commons has it: if the movie has an article, someone will want to embed the whole thing just because they can. So it doesn't really matter that the movie has no educational purpose. If Commons did not exist, I think WP:NOT would disallow it to be held by WP. But you can't delete media on WP that is also held by Commons. So I still think it can't pass as a WP featured picture because it breaks policy. Colin°Talk12:26, 2 April 2012 (UTC)[reply]
Oppose. This comes back to the question of whether the standard for notability for featured pictures is higher than for articles. To me, it has always seemed clear that it must be, particularly when an individual artwork is being proposed. Among paintings, for example, we have generally promoted frequently discussed paintings by major artists; even if a high-resolution reproduction existed for a public-domain or otherwise free painting by an amateur or non-notable painter, we would not be inclined to feature it unless it represented something of interest in itself. In this case, the film itself is not terribly important or valuable, nor does it illustrate the software or the creator better than other available images. So it does not represent Wikipedia's best work. Chick Bowen19:17, 30 March 2012 (UTC)[reply]
What about an AfD on WP? The movie has not won any awards, no notable people were in on its creation--it has no notability. Clegs (talk) 09:54, 4 April 2012 (UTC)[reply]
I think the article topic is just notable enough: a few 3D magazines both online and print have covered it. There's an interview on CreativeCommons. Very much special-interest only. Technically, this movie doesn't "illustrate" anything because it is the thing. That, IMO, separates it from being an encyclopaedic picture/video, or being educational (any more than anything is educational about itself by being merely existing). It is out of scope. Unfortunately we have some circular logic going on that prevents its deletion. Colin°Talk10:16, 4 April 2012 (UTC)[reply]
Voting period is over. Please don't add any new votes. Voting period ends on 5 Apr 2012 at 03:51:17 (UTC)
Original – A photograph of a survivor of the Andersonville Prison after the American Civil War. POWs at the site were kept in terrible conditions; 12,913 of the 45,000 prisoners died.
Reason
High resolution scan, decent quality for the era, restored
Voting period is over. Please don't add any new votes. Voting period ends on 7 Apr 2012 at 07:26:34 (UTC)
Original – German propaganda poster from World War I, showing a ghost with his arm wrapped around a soldier. The German-language caption is: "So hilft dein Geld Dir kämpfen! In U-Boote verwandelt, hält es Dir feindliche Granaten vom Leib! Darum: zeichne Kriegsanleihe!", which roughly means "Your money will protect you! U-Boats stop artillery from getting through! So: Buy War Bonds!"
Support. Good quality reproduction. Was briefly tempted to Oppose; we don't need German propaganda here, but it's not April Fools and I don't feel like getting lynched. Clegs (talk) 08:06, 29 March 2012 (UTC)[reply]
Please withdraw. Sorry, I don't think this is good enough to be an FP. And it was taken several years ago with a poor compact camera and was only uploaded for its encyclopaedic value. Julia\talk11:53, 7 April 2012 (UTC)[reply]
Yes, please, and I'm very sorry. I appreciate the nomination, but also don't want to suffer through all the opposes to come! Thank you. :) Julia\talk12:04, 7 April 2012 (UTC)[reply]
Voting period is over. Please don't add any new votes. Voting period ends on 7 Apr 2012 at 17:26:38 (UTC)
Original – Arlington Row, Bibury, UK was built in 1380 as a monastic wool store. The buildings were converted into weaver cottages in the 17th century. William Morris declared the village where the cottages reside as the most beautiful in England.
Reason
A quality image of one of the Cotswolds' iconic places.
Support. Very quaint and beautiful. I had to laugh: the first thing I say when I zoomed in on these 14th century houses was.... a satellite dish. Clegs (talk) 07:23, 30 March 2012 (UTC)[reply]
Oppose: The composition is poor. No sky, foreground chimneys chopped off, and overall a tight, awkward cropped view of what is meant to be a "row" but is barely visible here. A quick google images search demonstrates that there are much better options for composition, like this one: [3]. Julia\talk20:11, 3 April 2012 (UTC)[reply]
Voting period is over. Please don't add any new votes. Voting period ends on 8 Apr 2012 at 00:53:55 (UTC)
Original – A portrait of American politician and naturalist DeWitt Clinton, by Rembrandt Peale. Painted in 1823, the portrait measures Error in convert: Value "23.37.5" must be a number (help).
Reason
Fairly high resolution, very sharp, great depiction of a notable subject
Comment. The picture has not been in the article for the required one week, hence the nomination should be suspended. I am, however, afraid that this picture is not of FP standards, mainly due to reasons already mentioned by Daniel. O.J. (talk) 22:26, 30 March 2012 (UTC)[reply]
Very Weak Support on EV grounds. The slight lack in quality is made up for by the rareness of great quality sports shots. This must be a strange line-out play. Where is white's back pod? Both sides should be matching numbers. Why are there two players from white in front of the pods? On an unrelated note, I have the same rugby ball sitting right beside me. --Guerillero | My Talk02:23, 4 April 2012 (UTC)[reply]
Support. Love the way the blurred lights offset the tight detail on the body ... the shadows of her eyelashes and the sweat and/or sparkle on her skin. Great photo of a singer in action. Daniel Case (talk) 04:43, 2 April 2012 (UTC)[reply]
Oppose. Sorry to be a negative voice, but I don't think the composition is as good as it could be, and I'm not certain that the EV is super-high; it doesn't seem to give the best impression of what she looks like, and, as far as I can tell from the article, she's more of an actress than a singer. I do normally like portraits, but I don't think this is quite up to scratch. J Milburn (talk) 13:37, 2 April 2012 (UTC)[reply]
Oppose: We're generally much too harsh on concert photography, and I would like to see more of it promoted. The conditions are often such that some noise and softness are practically unavoidable, and having microphones and instruments a little in the way ought to be forgivable, I think. In this case, though, as a portrait, we should be able to see her eyes. Julia\talk20:25, 3 April 2012 (UTC)[reply]
Oppose. Agree with Julia W, the focus appears to be on her right shoulder, not her face. A nice portrait but not well executed. Ðiliff«»(Talk)06:58, 4 April 2012 (UTC)[reply]
Weak Support. Great detail, no real complaints about anything except the exposure. JJ, I saw you were recently railing against accusations of overexposure but I think this one is a little bright. It's not an issue of blown highlights, it's just that it was clearly taken near dusk but it looks a bit peculiarly bright given that time of day. I know as photographers, particularly encyclopaedic photographers, we choose the camera settings that best demonstrates the subject in all its detail, but I think that where possible we also have a duty to show it as it appears to the eye (unless detail is significantly lost by such an exposure). Feel free to convince me otherwise by the way, you were there, I'm just going by experience and gut feeling. :) Ðiliff«»(Talk)14:31, 3 April 2012 (UTC)[reply]
I forgot to change my camera's clock over there. This panorama was taken 7 minutes after the official sunset time (on average, it took a bit of time to shoot), so still relatively light conditions. The mostly pink building (it actually changes colour continuously) behind the Swan Bells hadn't even turned it's lights on when I started stitching this panorama. JJ Harrison (talk) 09:39, 4 April 2012 (UTC)[reply]
Support. I agree with Dliff that the exposure looks a little bright, but it's not blown out and this is one of the best cityscapes I've seen in a long time. Clegs (talk) 10:06, 4 April 2012 (UTC)[reply]
Voting period is over. Please don't add any new votes. Voting period ends on 10 Apr 2012 at 17:43:07 (UTC)
Original – Saussurea obvallata, also known as bramha kamal in India, blossoms once a year and is a rare sight.
Reason
I think it meets all the criteria for a FP.it is of high standard and has sufficently large resolution.It is highly detailed and is under free license.Adds value to the brahma kamal article.Its description is complete and is not manipulated.Also its verifiable.
Oppose. Sorry, but this really is not up to the standard of flower FPs. Compare it to others in the category. Further, there seems to be something going on with the image's orientation, but that may just be me. J Milburn (talk) 19:40, 1 April 2012 (UTC)[reply]
Oppose, sorry. I actually really like the composition - it makes a refreshing change from "flower in a field". But technically it's just not up to it - it's not sharp, it has too much noise, and there's colour-fringing and jpeg compression artifacts. -- Boing! said Zebedee (talk) 20:32, 1 April 2012 (UTC)[reply]
Voting period is over. Please don't add any new votes. Voting period ends on 14 Apr 2012 at 21:09:44 (UTC)
Original – Map showing air attacks on Japan during the Second World War (1945)
Reason
Previous nomination threw up a few small things which have been fixed. As before: SVG format; complicated information that is not easily replicated in text form; clear presentation; standard colours; very informative to the reader; US military source. The consensus edit is presented here.
Very Weak Oppose. I stayed out of this last time because I don't really have a strong opinion either way. However, given another go-round so soon, here's my thought: It doesn't grab me visually and doesn't have the over-the-top EV to offset that. If it were to provide more information than just "plane strike" and 'surface bombardment" (for example, what ships were involved) I might go for it. Also concerned with scale. Are the bars the actual fleet location at the time of bombardment? They're 35-40 miles off-shore, and the only ships that had that sort of range were the big battleships. Were the smaller ships not involved? Clegs (talk) 12:54, 6 April 2012 (UTC)[reply]
I'm afraid I don't know, perhaps Nick does, but it's not clear. It's a US military map, if it's only a selection of the attacks it would have been odd to have omitted it – and certainly not without reason.
Insofar as others might wish to take this into account, the appropriate criteria for this sort of fault are: 3.2 It illustrates the subject in a compelling way, making the viewer want to know more... diagrams and other illustrations are clear and informative., 3.3 A featured picture is not always required to be aesthetically pleasing; it might be shocking, impressive, or just highly informative. and 5.2 A picture's encyclopedic value (referred to as "EV") is given priority over its artistic value.. Grandiose(me, talk, contribs) 13:41, 6 April 2012 (UTC)[reply]
The locations of the ships isn't accurate; the bombardments were conducted within visual range of the Japanese coast and the carriers were generally a bit further offshore. However, depicting this accurately would mean that the bombarding ships would be placed almost on the coastline (thus obscuring the names of the cities they attacked) and there would be long lines all over the place showing the (approximate) routes taken by the carrier aircraft. As such, the placement used by the original US military map maker seems a good compromise. Nick-D (talk) 23:37, 7 April 2012 (UTC)[reply]
Question: Is it possible to rotate the map so that the latitude lines are roughly horizontal (now they are quite angled with the right side being much higher)? SpencerT♦C17:49, 7 April 2012 (UTC)[reply]
Weak oppose it's very detailed and clear at high resolution, but at thumbnail resolution you really can't see anything. I would like it better if the legend were larger, and maybe the names of the islands as well, and so you could at least see a rough summary of the image at thumbnail resolution. Otherwise its encyclopedic value suffers. -RunningOnBrains(talk)19:39, 7 April 2012 (UTC)[reply]
For what it's worth, that sits oddly with current practice. Obviously I'm careful of doing so, but images like this FP (at 320px) and this (also 320px) don't render usefully at thumbnail size: we expect people to click through. The criteria don't really seem to address it, which may also lean towards not considering it. Grandiose(me, talk, contribs) 20:04, 8 April 2012 (UTC)[reply]
Weak oppose. It seems like there is a lot of information that could be in this figure. Per Clegs, the identities of the major ships (or at least the task groups) would add significant value. Some of this sort of information is already hinted at; for example, on 28 July there are three carrier plane strikes shown, originating from two adjacent icons—the reader is left to suspect or guess that this could represent two separate carriers/groups operating in the same waters (one of which launched two sorties), but we really don't know for sure. TenOfAllTrades(talk) 16:43, 9 April 2012 (UTC)[reply]
Oppose The overlap between the planes, and the plane and the mountain distract from a clear reading of the plane. --ELEKHHT07:09, 4 April 2012 (UTC)[reply]
Oppose per Elekhh: this is a nice photo, but the EV is very limited. Note that these kind of aircraft almost always operate by themselves at high altitude, so it doesn't depict the aircraft doing anything other than taking part in a staged PR photo shoot (US military aircraft based in Japan seem to be routinely photographed in front of Mount Fuji). Nick-D (talk) 12:14, 5 April 2012 (UTC)[reply]
Comment Despite unanimous support, this is technically ineligible because it's only used in a gallery. I'll hold off on closing for now, but it's a non-promotion unless that's dealt with. Makeemlighter (talk) 14:44, 8 April 2012 (UTC)[reply]
Weak Support. Resolution not fantastic and the composition feels very tight at the bottom. I suspect the point was to eliminate distracting foreground elements but it's a shame IMO. Otherwise, nice composition as per the rest of the series of abbeys, churches, etc. Ðiliff«»(Talk)14:15, 3 April 2012 (UTC)[reply]
Ah. f/18 isn't ideal. This goes some way to explaining the lack of detail, and I assume this was cropped from a wider photo, rather than downsampled to 1667×1786px. Ðiliff«»(Talk)14:17, 3 April 2012 (UTC)[reply]
Oppose Looks a little snapshot-ish, the composition is rather poor, the building looks like it is leaning to the left, light artifacts throughout the picture (not that noticeable, but they do appear to be present.) Also, I am not impressed with the reason the nominator gave, on why he thinks the picture should be promoted to FP status. Dusty77717:32, 3 April 2012 (UTC)[reply]
Oppose: Too soft at this somewhat low resolution; we normally expect rather more of architecture photography, in terms of sharpness and detail. (Also, there are dust spots. Should be easy to take care of before nominating.) Julia\talk20:34, 3 April 2012 (UTC)[reply]
Weak oppose - though the photo ticks most of the assessment boxes, the composition is a bit awry - it seems to be cropped to create a composition with the background, rather than focus on the building; the building looks like it is leaning; the flattened perspective is useful in many ways, but seems to have been achieved by cropping the centre of a high-res photo taken by a non-telephoto lens. Overall, it is perfectly adequate for illustrating a WP article, but not a great photographic example IMO. Sionk (talk) 13:00, 10 April 2012 (UTC)[reply]
Oppose. Have people actually looked at the articles in which this is used? The EV in symmetry is next to none, as the section is over-illustrated and this kind of architecture (nevermind this particular example) is not mentioned at all. In the mosque article, it's just been tagged on to the end of a (large) gallery. A great candidate for Commons FP, a poor one for enwp. J Milburn (talk) 13:42, 2 April 2012 (UTC)[reply]
Oppose Agree with J Milburn: limited EV. For the mosque article, the photo showing half the ceiling and some wall is actually more useful. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Colin (talk • contribs)
Comment Colin, Milburn, I think you're entirely missing the point and purpose of the artist. To explain in approachable language, the designer causes the viewer to experience an altered state of mind. Keep in mind, that the artist has decided that the proper viewing position is to stand straight with your head leaning back so your face points towards the heavens above, and you lose the sense of connection (visual and symbolic) to the ground, as well as the whole bloodflow thing. Beginning by overloading the viewers vision with fine detail and pattern which increases towards the center of the image, matching the rod and cone density of the human eye, then using the central focusing point which the artists has given the viewer to "hold onto for dear life" as their brain 'compensates' by negating the pattern which 'disappears' after a few moments for some people, but takes longer for others (same way some people can't see the 3D images on paper by refocusing their eyes, this is easy for some, takes longer for others). The viewer is holding onto the central point as all the rest of the image disappears and swirls. This has obvious connections to the place the viewer has in the world. There are many messages this artist has for the viewer, and certainly the religious messages are clear. Am I the only person seeing these clear meanings ? This is not Christmas wrapping paper. This is a mosque ceiling. Unfortunately, although we can well stare at the center point on our monitor, no matter how good or how wide and detailed the monitor is, A) none of us are holding the monitor overhead B) none of us are pilgrims. So I guess it's 'what fraction' of the message of this artist can we grasp. That is the question. Having part of the floor in the picture is not helpful. The best way to understand is to adjust our monitors by switching them off and then wandering the earth. I think no image on this page comes close to the real life experiences that exist outside. (I took a wander with my mind over the pictures on this page, it would be so cool to go to 1/10th of these places, wow, alas) Penyulap ☏
Indeed, Featured picture criteria Number 1. "a high technical standard. Its main subject is in focus, it has good composition and has no highly distracting or obstructing elements." such as having a wall in the picture. Sure, there may indeed be valid reasons to oppose, but the lack of a wall doesn't convince me it should be opposed. Penyulap ☏
Oppose. I'm inclined to go with J Milburn on this one. The image is striking in an abstract way, but unfortunately it is only very tangentially linked to the articles in which it appears. Penyulap's comment above is certainly interesting, but it doesn't reflect the way that this image is discussed in our articles. TenOfAllTrades(talk) 15:35, 3 April 2012 (UTC)[reply]
I've added it to WProject Math. Iran, Islam and Architecture, as they are bannered on the article tp's. Something I do not know, can a candidate category be added for symmetry ? I'm not familiar with process. Penyulap ☏
Certainly. My technostalker seemed unusually reclusive the last few days after the bot he wrote for me was approved. So I stalked him here, just to have a look what he was up to. I have nothing but a general knowledge interest in Mosques, Math, and Islamic art, and had no intention to comment until I came across the comment that the wall should be in the picture. As an artist and many other things, it was obvious to me what the artist who did this roof was after, of course we can't ask him, I mean the guy is dead by 400 years, so your opinion is as valid as mine on that topic. But you can get a grasp of his intention when you fill the screen and center your focus. You know I think that the problem here is the venue in time and space. We can't see life 400 years ago, but I have to tell you this, it was much more quiet, slower, and there was no constant bombardment of the senses by audio-visual information. You have to be very obscene with the illusions, like this kind of thing so that people can get any idea of what is going on. (actually this is a shade quieter). 400 years ago people usually only heard music at church, a cathederal is not designed for people to look at the preacher (think columns), that is not the point of the cathederal. you come into a different (sometimes darker) world of sound, where you switch off your eyes and drift with your mind on the emotions expressed by the choirs and in the hymns. The real world is in a galaxy far away. I would define regular sunday mass at a cathederal this wayⓘ so the listener can see the shuffling shoes and restless kids, I'd define the monastery this wayⓘ to show the robes are not as itchy as they look, and I'd call thisⓘ music I just stole for my personal use thank you very much. Similar principle here in the mosque, but it's a visual, durr. The journey defined by this image is personal, not communal, one pilgrim at a time, and they wander in on any day at any time in the summerlike heat in their white robes, are they thirsty ? I think everyone in the middle east is thirsty. I'd say that to go there and experience the mosque is the only way to know how to define it, and even then, everyone comes away with a different story, but I'd say this ceiling tells a popular story. To be honest, I haven't looked at the walls myself. But I am captured instantly, if only briefly, by the message of this image. Penyulap ☏
Support: This image illustrate a rotational symmetry of order 32 (if my count is correct). This should be added in Symmetry#Rotational symmetry. This image also illustrate another kind of symmetry, not explicitly described in the article, namely the product of a rotation of angle 2π/64 by a homothety. In other words, this image is an excellent but poorly used illustration for the article symmetry. D.Lazard (talk) 07:23, 4 April 2012 (UTC)[reply]
If the image is excellent but the usage poor, it should not be promoted on the English Wikipedia. Here, the usage of featured pictures is highly important, as opposed to Commons, where we are judging on just the picture. J Milburn (talk) 08:41, 4 April 2012 (UTC)[reply]
it's not rotational symmetry of order 32 (see my !vote below). I make it 8, with reflections, so the group is D8. But it's far from obvious and I may have missed some detail.--JohnBlackburnewordsdeeds10:50, 10 April 2012 (UTC)[reply]
Support I hadn't wanted to vote, but if there is any canvassing going on, then I had better vote to help stamp it out. Some may say I am following a fashion of wiki politics, others will say I look beyond such juvenile pursuits and want to give an honest opinion of this image. I don't care which they say. For I at least, looked at this image. Penyulap ☏
is that the same page that I cut and pasted from yesterday when I quoted "1. a high technical standard. Its main subject is in focus, it has good composition and has no highly distracting or obstructing elements." or is it a different page entirely ? And are you sure this isn't commons ? Penyulap ☏14:18, 4 April 2012 (UTC)[reply]
There are eight criteria to judge images against. You've picked part of one. The major different between this and Commons is the additional requirement wrt encyclopaedic value in actual articles. Colin°Talk14:28, 4 April 2012 (UTC)[reply]
Well I go by a Dead poet standard and don't follow the two dozen criteria here, (more a matter of ripping out the page and trusting my own artistic instincts). I only mentioned one because someone else brought up having a wall in the picture. I honestly have no problem with this image. Penyulap ☏
If you're not going to pay attention to the criteria, then, with all due respect, you should not be taking part in the process, and I would hope any closer ignores your comments. I also do not see anything wrong with the picture itself; as I said, this would be a decent candidate on Commons (and yes, I'm sure that this isn't Commons, whatever that's supposed to mean). However, we are not just judging the artistic elements of the picture, which seems to make up the entirety of your vote. There are a great number of other factors- copyright, correspondence with reality and usefulness in the encyclopedia being three elements of easily equal importance to artistic value. The criteria quite clearly note that artistic value comes second to encyclopedic value (of course, you're above such pettiness, so I speak to others only...) If you want to play at being an art critic, that's fine, I'm sure you'll get a lot out of it, but here is not the place to do it. J Milburn (talk) 16:31, 4 April 2012 (UTC)[reply]
You've misunderstood. I've read the entire list, it makes intuitive sense and as I read it first time I cross off mentally everything that I'd do naturally, only looking for unusual things that I actually need to remember, but there are none. I don't need to refer to it ever again as it's intuitive. Strangely, you don't seem to remember it, as I had quoted you part of it, and then a day later you'd asked if I had seen it, but that's all cool. Engineers need years of study into lift, drag, thrust, airframe construction theory, aircraft engines and avionics get so darn complicated, and then the pilots even after years of experience still need a co-pilot and a heap of checklists whereas a bird simply spreads its wings and takes to the sky. Some people can sing naturally, I can't and no amount of training will change that. We all have talents and weaknesses. You asked if I know where I am, in regards to 'this is not commons', well yes I do, I contribute to wikipedias in dozens of languages, and I speak without words. I write PURELY visual documentations where pictures are the only language like a FAQ for a visual gallery of barnstars and a a robot console (which needs one more pic I haven't done yet). If I need an image to make another image I don't need to read up documentation to tell me how to choose the best ones, actually that would take me weeks even months for one days work if I had to process at that speed. But written documentation is very important and it is very important that you do read that list, at least daily I guess, as you had asked me if I had read it the next day remember ? So read that list and you can't go wrong. Anyhow, there are lots of people arrived to help with other problems like if it has EV for symmetry, experts from wikiproject math. How about the guy who says stuff like "the product of a rotation of angle 2π/64 by a homothety" pretty darn impressive that, I have no idea what on earth he is talking about, but he talks the talk, he can see the same thing I saw, that the image is nothing but net, but he can translate it into proper mathematical language, which is what you're after, yes language ? Anyhow, I don't know how things work around here, so I agree, nobody should listen to me. I have too many other things to do than explain more than why a wall doesn't belong in the pic. Anyhow we are going to cop a spanking if we don't take this off to our talkpages. I'm very happy to continue discussion on my talkpage if you like, but we'd best stop here. Penyulap ☏
Support(tentative): It seems like an excellent picture. Admittedly this is the first chance I've had to apply the guidelines here. Can someone explain which guidelines are being used to object to the picture? I have been looking and can't decide. Rschwieb (talk) 15:49, 4 April 2012 (UTC)[reply]
Criterion 5. The usage in the Mosque article is not appropriate for it to pass as a featured picture- the article is woefully over-illustrated, and this particular shot is just tacked onto the end of a gallery. The particular section of the symmetry article, too, is over-illustrated, and, to make matters worse, the use of this kind of symmetry in Islamic architecture is not discussed at all. It would be like promoting a picture of a flower for the illustration it adds to an article on human beauty. Essentially, we are not just judging the image itself (I do not challenge that the image itself is an interesting one- as I said, it would make an excellent candidate at Commons), but the extent to which it contributes to the articles. J Milburn (talk) 16:25, 4 April 2012 (UTC)[reply]
Oppose - as per other comments above, the image meets every other part of the criteria except for Point 5. I've been invited here from WP Architecture and, from what I can see, the picture neither helps understand the Mosque, or symmetry in architecture. The other three pictures in the mosque article are far more descriptive of the ceiling (which I didn't realise was a circular dome until I saw them). Symmetry in architecture is far better illustrated by building facades, vistas etc. rather than a technically clever picture of a ceiling pattern. Sorry to disappoint the author! Sionk (talk) 18:14, 4 April 2012 (UTC)[reply]
Doesn't "Symmetry in architecture" create a non-existent category ? like "Mosques in Mathematics" few images would explain the new subject. Is it separate categories or mix and (mis)match ? Penyulap ☏
Not sure what you mean. The photo is used to illustrate the 'Symmetry in Architecture' section of the article. To be honest, if it wasn't for this 'vote' I would remove the photo and replace it with something more central to the subject. Sionk (talk) 22:02, 4 April 2012 (UTC)[reply]
Part of the point for its inclusion there is that it illustrates a different type of symmetry, actually a dihedral symmetry, rather than the very common bilateral symmetry you would see in building facade. You need this particular view to show the symmetric relation precisely. --Salix (talk): 23:55, 7 April 2012 (UTC)[reply]
Support. Everything else, as the opposes admit, is great; the EV would be less disputable if the article on the mosque didn't have that gallery of images as this is the only one of only the ceiling. Nothing a little editing of the article can't fix. Daniel Case (talk) 19:34, 4 April 2012 (UTC)[reply]
Tangetal thinking there. should be an oppose vote really, as the article won't get written any time soon, and the image won't fit until the writing is done. But then, does the writing get done before the images inspire, the classic chicken and egg paradox. Penyulap ☏
Weak oppose I think generally speaking a detail of the interior of a dome has high enough EV to become FP, but here what disturbs me is that is no element of scale, is not clear what extent of the dome is depicted, and the landscape format is distracting from the central character of the space. I would much more prefer a square format, depicting the whole dome. --ELEKHHT21:17, 5 April 2012 (UTC)[reply]
Strong Oppose Image is used in gallery for primary article, thus fails criteria there, and has ALMOST ZERO EV in secondary article, so imho fails the criteria there. Unless the primary article actually talks about the ceiling and uses this image to illustrate that section and not in a gallery, OR there is RELIABLE SOURCES that use this ceiling in relation to Symmetry then it has ZERO EV for that article. Based on this I would vote for speedy close with failure to meet the minimum requirements for nomination. — raekyt09:26, 6 April 2012 (UTC)[reply]
Support per Robert Byron's quote in the Lotfollah mosque "I know of no finer example of the Persian Islamic genius than the interior of the dome" followed by quite an extensive quote describing it. So we have an exemplar of the Islamic artistic style which builds upon their long tradition of using symmetric patterns in their art work, at the time they were much ahead of western use of symmetrical designs. (I think the article has expanded this section considerably since more of the previous comments so the EV is now much stronger). --Salix (talk): 23:55, 7 April 2012 (UTC)[reply]
Looking closer it does have a lot of different symmetries going on, each "petal" is bilaterally symmetric, further the 3rd, 5th and 7th rings have two lines of reflection. The choice of 32 is no accident as being a power of 2 allow rotation symmetry by 180°, 90°, 45°, 22.5° and 11.25°. The design allows some spirals to be seen, a feature of the rotation+homothety mentioned above.--Salix (talk): 00:20, 8 April 2012 (UTC)[reply]
Oppose per J. Milburn. The building in question is gorgeous and well-deserving of a featured-picture-quality image. Sadly, the nominated image isn't it. Spikebrennan (talk) 21:09, 9 April 2012 (UTC)[reply]
oppose very nice to look at but of very poor encyclopaedic value, both as an architectural picture per other editors and as a far too complex an example of symmetry: see how long it takes you to read off exactly what it's symmetry group is (you can't do this from the thumbnail).--JohnBlackburnewordsdeeds10:45, 10 April 2012 (UTC)[reply]
Oppose It doesn't illustrate a brick. It doesn't illustrate a brick wall. It is too abstract and flat. It doesn't show a classic bond (pattern). The articles have an abundance of pictures, none of which stand out as being the one for the lead. This is a rather ugly, garish and unweathered grid of bricks with mortar. The misnamed File:Concrete wall.jpg is a better photo. I'd be tempted to remove this recent insertion from both articles, but I suspect doing so during an FPC might be viewed as disruptive. Colin°Talk21:05, 2 April 2012 (UTC)[reply]
Oppose No Encyclopedic value that I can see. Brick has 30+ pictures already, and this one does not add anymore EV then the others, (They are all pretty much a picture of the same thing) I don't know of anyone who hasn't seen a brick wall, so... it's not really that informative of a picture. I just don't see any EV here. Dusty77721:15, 2 April 2012 (UTC)[reply]
Oppose. Well-executed, but meh, and doesn't really show a brick wall, just a pattern of bricks with no sense of scale. Clegs (talk) 10:13, 4 April 2012 (UTC)[reply]
Weak oppose - I would vote keep, apart from the fact the image lacks any adequate description, therefore failing (7) of the assessment criteria. I would like to know more about where the wall was located and some information about the type of brick. Apart from failing (7), it meets every other part of the criteria. It is an excellent illustration for the Brick article, because it shows a wide variety of handmade(?) bricks, of a variety of colours and a non-standard (but illustrative) bond. The lighting allows one to see that the mortar is recessed. Sionk (talk) 11:53, 10 April 2012 (UTC)[reply]
Voting period is over. Please don't add any new votes. Voting period ends on 11 Apr 2012 at 17:50:41 (UTC)
Original – Messerschmitt Bf 108 in flight, 2010. The Messerschmitt Bf 108 Taifun was a German single-engine sports and touring aircraft developed by Bayerische Flugzeugwerke (Bavarian Aircraft Works).
Support. Have you actually tried taking pictures of planes? It's VERY hard to get a plane that's moving 300+ mph perfectly sharp. Good composition and acceptable quality. Clegs (talk) 10:16, 4 April 2012 (UTC)[reply]
Weak support A little bit soft as mentioned above, but with degree-of-difficulty this is really great. I see no difference in quality between the above and below pictures. -RunningOnBrains(talk)19:55, 7 April 2012 (UTC)[reply]
For identification purposes only, I agree that this is a better image. However, for both photographic style and EV (him actually receiving the medal) I think the other is a bit higher). I'm not going to oppose this on angle alone, but I wouldn't feel comfortable with a support vote either. Crisco 1492 (talk) 02:19, 3 April 2012 (UTC)[reply]
Comment - His face is unclear and his eye on the right side looks odd. (Is it partly blotted out?) His mid section overwhelms his face, drawing attention to his stomach first. MathewTownsend (talk) 18:47, 3 April 2012 (UTC)[reply]
For softness, I don't quite mind as this is at a high resolution. If we were to insist on sharpness, we'd probably end up with a downsampled image. I cannot comment on dust spots as this monitor is insanely dirty (I'm not at home) Crisco 1492 (talk) 01:58, 4 April 2012 (UTC)[reply]
I took the resolution into account, which is why I only opposed weakly. But even at the reduced resolution you added (and I had looked at it downsampled before voting), it's visibly unsharp, particularly on any of the spires. I can make exceptions for underwater photography, concert pics, other live events, animals (they move) and plants (wind is often an issue), but this is too easily reproducible to consider it our best work. Julia\talk07:07, 4 April 2012 (UTC)[reply]
comment -- i am just feeling my way around here; hope you don't mind lengthy commentary. i can't access your first reference, and the second one doesn't impress me much; it sounds very defensive and offers no evidence. according to the prado's portuguese website (the link to the painting itself on Auto-da-fé is broken), yes, the painter has taken all sorts of liberties in order to convey the aspects of an auto-da-fé, but behaviour as well as clothing is acknowledged to be representative of the time. does it matter whether that was really st dominic presiding at this particular auto-da-fé? i mean, of course in an absolute sense it does, but isn't what we'd expect from any painting of the time a general feeling of authenticity rather than cold, hard facts only? the article is about auto-da-fé, not about st dominic, and there is a note under the image that points out that it might not be accurate. and in the article about st. dominic there is a paragraph right next to it on how his involvement has been disputed. i really like the image educationally; it's very detailed; much better than the other ones (it certainly got me to read a lot about the inquisition just now). piranha (talk) 08:57, 6 April 2012 (UTC)[reply]
Voting period is over. Please don't add any new votes. Voting period ends on 24 Mar 2012 at 00:16:34 (UTC)
Original – English-American actor Cary Grant in a publicity still for the 1941 film Suspicion
Reason
This large, public domain image of actor Cary Grant reminded me quite a lot of File:Hepburn-afternoon.jpg, which was promoted to FP back in November. It clearly identifies the subject, and appears to be of a high quality. The original image has kindly been brightened by Crisco 1492.
Oppose Insufficient proof of copyright status. Per Wikimedia counsel (in response to a query about publicity images such as this), "It is essential to confirm that the exact image uploaded to Common was released without a copyright notice". See WP:CCI#Attorney reply. There is no proof specific to this image showing that there was no copyright notice/no renewal. Calliopejen1 (talk) 18:42, 15 March 2012 (UTC)[reply]
I looked, as noted above, but could not find the same image with both front and back. However, one from the same film is PD, linked above. Not explicit, but circumstantial evidence. Crisco 1492 (talk) 11:02, 24 March 2012 (UTC)[reply]
A search of copyright renewal records for 1969 and 1970 ([4], [5], [6], [7]) reveals that no renewal was filed as would have been required to maintain copyright protection, if any, on any bound collection of material that might encompass this photograph. Does this count for anything? A Thousand Doors (talk | contribs) 13:33, 24 March 2012 (UTC)[reply]
I tried to investigate any copyright renewal, and I think we are probably fine. A 1941 work would have to have been renewed in 1968 or 1969; here are the four books with all the registrations and renewals for the category that includes photos for that time period: [8], [9], [10], [11]. (The search by A Thousand Doors did not cover renewals for photgraphs.) The word "Cary" doesn't appear anywhere in any of these renewal/registration record books, and all hits for "RKO" and "Grant" are irrelevant (this, of course, assumes that one of these words would be in the renewal). There were only a total of 667 renewals for the artworks/photographs category for those two years, so it's unlikely that we just missed the title for some reason. Calliopejen1 (talk) 23:07, 12 April 2012 (UTC)[reply]
Support although I'm curious what the black nib at the tip of her beak is for (needless to say, the article is not very helpful) Crisco 1492 (talk) 10:56, 4 April 2012 (UTC)[reply]
Voting period is over. Please don't add any new votes. Voting period ends on 9 Apr 2012 at 23:02:58 (UTC)
Original – London King's Cross railway station's departures concourse, taken from the walkway between the mezzanine floor and the main station building during the evening rush hour.
Reason
London's King's Cross railway station is being transformed from being ugly and congested to something beautiful and free-flowing. The newly-opened departures concourse, by architect John McAslan, is a sight to behold rather than just a means of going somewhere else. A stereographic fish-eye lens was used to capture the full-visual-field scene with one shot, though this leads to a small degree of uncorrectable distortion. The ½ second exposure captures the movement of the rush hour scene. Oh, and there's a bit of Harry Potter in there too if you look closely. I hope you enjoy it. Colin°Talk23:02, 31 March 2012 (UTC)[reply]
Support Its a good photograph with EV. I'm usually a little iffy on spherical/cylindrical projections (which includes fisheye lenses) for architecture shots if it is unneeded, this is just slightly wider than any readily available rectilinear lens, and the distortion isn't too bad so I'm ok with it. JJ Harrison (talk) 12:08, 1 April 2012 (UTC)[reply]
Thanks for your support. The shot has a 180° diagonal field-of-view, which is considerably more than the 120° a rectilinear projection or ultra-wide lens could reasonably achieve. I'm pretty pleased with this lens' ability to achieve this feat with only a little curvyness, particularly if you align the most prominent lines with the central axes. Colin°Talk11:52, 2 April 2012 (UTC)[reply]
Hi Sanyambahga. I agree with you that because they don't do straight lines then for formal architectural photography this is a problem. I'd argue, that WP has to serve all readers, which means it is also valuable to give a sense of the space of the building, and an aliveness that a populated busy station has during rush hour. Compare a conventional view that has the same right-hand-side here. This is about 50-60% as wide/tall as the above. It too has sloping verticals. If I were to crop the above picture to the same area, it would look very similar. But the linked picture, like many of the architectural shots taken during construction, is boring and dead. It is possible that the above pic appears more distorted than it really is. The picture is taken with the camera on the handrail at the point where the walkway curves round in a meandering 90° bend. The roof, of course, is extremely curvy. -- Colin°Talk18:58, 4 April 2012 (UTC)[reply]
Dear Colin, architectural photography does not serve only the architects. Your image might depict a sense of aliveness but surely does not provide a sense of space as compared to the 60% cropped image you have tagged. I would surely not want to find this image in the Architecture category. In my opinion, the fact that it has a 180° field-of-view isn't sufficient enough for the image to be nominated. Sanyambahga (talk) 19:55, 4 April 2012 (UTC)[reply]
I'm fine with the image not being to everyone's taste but am upset about the "noise" criticism. This is an evening interior shot with a challenging dynamic range, but taken with a modern DSLR at ISO 100 and upload at the full 14MP. I don't think that is fair, and just encourages folk to cheat by downsizing their images before upload. Colin°Talk11:42, 9 April 2012 (UTC)[reply]
That's why noise was third: it's the weakest of my objections. It's the combination (mostly of the first two) that leads me to oppose. Makeemlighter (talk) 15:42, 9 April 2012 (UTC)[reply]
We can't read your mind, so they all appear as equal reasons in your list. Since we're judging against Featured picture criteria, it shouldn't be listed as an objection at all because it isn't "significant" at any resolution and doesn't exist at all at resolutions that are still way above the minimum standard. You may prefer that at 100% there was no noise at all, but that is holding the image against a standard we have not agreed to and fairly unrealistic given this wasn't taken by some little compact at ISO 800. To list it here is unfair against those who upload their original sized images. I'm not asking you to change your vote but would like you to strike that objection. It harms the FP process to pick faults at pixel peeping levels that are only visible because the photographer has been generous when uploading. It is like wandering round an art gallery with a magnifying glass, complaining about brush strokes. -- Colin°Talk16:37, 9 April 2012 (UTC)[reply]
Support Interesting projection, good quality and motion blur appropriately shows how busy place is. BTW that Samyang lens looks a pretty good bargain. Also read somewhere it's not really a fisheye lense, but a stereographic.- Blieusong (talk) 13:57, 9 April 2012 (UTC)[reply]
Support. Very nice wide view of the interior. Not bothered by the distortion (necessary with very wide views) or the noise (It's higher than I'd like to see for ISO 100, but tolerable), and the blur does not detract from the image IMO, as detail of the people is not particularly relevant, and instead it offers a bit of movement to the scene. Ðiliff«»(Talk)06:16, 12 April 2012 (UTC)[reply]
Oppose per composition. Technically the image is fairly good, although a little soft methinks. I don't like how the bird is photographed from above; the image also looks like it was just plopped in the article (EV issues). Composition-wise, I prefer something like File:Brown pelican - natures pics.jpg - Shame that particular image has technical issues. Crisco 1492 (talk) 14:39, 5 April 2012 (UTC)[reply]
Do those pieces of dirt at the edges continue to the land, or is there sea near them? What are those green and red things in the miniature stream in front of the rock? Crisco 1492 (talk) 14:08, 5 April 2012 (UTC)[reply]
Weak oppose -- Possibly misrepresentational, as one of the two sandbars is clipped when it should be able to be worked into the frame. I can't see that it is only attached to the mainland by the sandbar in front of the photographer Crisco 1492 (talk) 23:04, 5 April 2012 (UTC)[reply]
Voting period is over. Please don't add any new votes. Voting period ends on 14 Apr 2012 at 05:20:23 (UTC)
Original – An untitled painting by Fransisco Goya, generally known as Fight with Cudgels in English. The work measures 125 by 261 centimetres (49 × 103 in) and was originally directly painted onto the walls of Goya's house sometime between 1820 and 1823
Reason
High quality, notable painting, interesting composition, subject matter, and symbolism
Voting period is over. Please don't add any new votes. Voting period ends on 10 Apr 2012 at 03:00:40 (UTC)
Original – Black-winged Stilt (Himantopus himantopus leucocephalus), Lake Joondalup, Perth, Western Australia, Australia
Reason
This subspecies of the Black-winged Stilt is sometimes considered a separate species, the White-headed Stilt, depending on the authority. At any rate, this is a high quality article illustration.
Oppose -- i consider this image to be considerably worse than the already existing image for Black-winged Stilt and the shelduck above (same photographer, i see ;). mainly i can't distinguish any feathers in the over-exposed areas on the head and side of the breast, and it has some chromatic aberration along the back. i know white/black birds are notoriously hard to photograph, and this is ok as an illustration of the articles, but not as a featured photo. piranha (talk) 07:43, 6 April 2012 (UTC)[reply]
Support It's my understanding that this photo is of a White-headed Stilt, and the picture mentioned by Piranha is of a Black-winged Stilt. I think this is quite an interesting distinction. TehGrauniad (talk) 19:11, 9 April 2012 (UTC)[reply]
Comment. Added ALT-1. I did some restoration on the original lossless tiff file. I also did some work on the sourcing. O.J. (talk) 23:41, 12 April 2012 (UTC)[reply]
Oppose As MMXX said, the previous lead image was much better than this here. Apart from the noise, the composition is boring and it has too much head room. --GoPTCN09:54, 11 April 2012 (UTC)[reply]
This is not a great lithograph, and it replaced an excellent photograph. That edit should be reverted, and indeed, if the photograph remains stable in the article, we might consider it for FP instead. Chick Bowen15:23, 11 April 2012 (UTC)[reply]
Oppose Bottom left of picture has multiple cracks and white spots (those need to get fixed), and I don't see as how this picture will contribute any encyclopedic value to the article, as it already has 20+ pictures, and (lastly), the picture isn't even in the article anymore. Dusty77717:19, 17 April 2012 (UTC)[reply]
Oppose. Only the very top of the image is in focus, focus deteriorates farther down the pictures. Looks like the camera wasn't quite level with the ground when this was taken. Too bad, b/c otherwise it's a really cool picture. Clegs (engage in rational discourse) 13:22, 11 April 2012 (UTC)[reply]
Voting period is over. Please don't add any new votes. Voting period ends on 19 Apr 2012 at 05:16:05 (UTC)
Original – Proof using similar triangles.
Reason
High technical standard and resolution, public domain, verifiable in article, complete file description. It adds value to article. It is a graphic so criteria 8 doesn't apply. I can't say anything about criteria 3.
Comment: something a bit different. I'd really like to see some reference to some book where this diagram is taken from, preferably with accompanying proof as laid out there: including the proof itself feels a bit OR, as if we're expected to validate it ourselves. Grandiose(me, talk, contribs) 10:30, 10 April 2012 (UTC)[reply]
Comment:I vectorized it from its bitmap version but I did find a book (textbook).:Geometry Standard X (textbook) Maharashtra State Board of Secondary & Higher Secondary Education Pune -411 004 (First Edition:2011) Page 23.
The figure there is at best described as "crude" with a simple right angled triangle ABC(B is the right angle) and a perpendicular BD onto AC(hypotenuse). The figure there is black and white with only the right angles marked(no other markings except vertices). The exact proof there is:
In \tri ABC, seg BD \perp hypotenuse AC ...(construction)
\ther \tri ABC ~ \tri ADB ...(similarity in right angled triangles)
\ther AB/AD=AC/AB ...(corresponding sides of similar triangles)
\ther AB^2=AC X AD ...(i)
Similarly, we have \tri ABC ~ \tri BDC
\ther BC/DC=AC/BC ...(corresponding sides of similar triangles)
\ther BC^2=AC X DC ...(ii)
\ther AB^2 + BC^2 =AC X AD + AC X DC ...[by adding (i) and (ii)]
=AC(AD+DC)
=AC X AC ...(A-D-C)
=AC^2
\ther AB^2 + BC^2=AC^2
I couldn't be bothered to use the math tags again so \tri means the triangle symbol(Delta), \ther means the therefore symbol(three dots) and X means the multiplication sign. Everything after ... are reasons for the corresponding statements.
I didn't originally reference it as the book is unreliable (IMO) with frequent errors. (eg:An image from Wikipedia is cited as htpp[sic]://en.wikipedia.orgview_html.php?sq=Google&lang=en&q=pythagorean-themorem[sic] (pages 3, 4 and 5)[since when do Wikipedia articles have pages])I have several other reasons that don't belong here.
If you have a book which demonstrates that this image is correct and uses the proof - and is a reliable source - then add it. I would like to see one before I can support. Grandiose(me, talk, contribs) 18:50, 10 April 2012 (UTC)[reply]
Comment' -- I think this nomination is in the wrong forum. Here we assess the encyclopaedic value of pictures in articles, not mathematical proofs. And I can't see anything remarkable in this image. (BTW, the proof above makes little sense, there is no vertex D) -- Alvesgaspar (talk) 18:44, 10 April 2012 (UTC)[reply]
I believe the nomination is correct. The image significantly adds to the article by illustrating the proof. The proof given is in response to my verifiability/sourcing comment, not part of the nomination. Grandiose(me, talk,contribs) 18:50, 10 April 2012 (UTC)[reply]
@Alvesgaspar--The proof is not with regard to this figure, it's according to the one given in the book. For it to make sense, just switch labels of vertex C and B and rename H as D--Gauravjuvekar (talk) 03:55, 11 April 2012 (UTC)[reply]
Strong oppose -- Nothing extraordinary here. It is not even a good illustration of the proof in the article, which only refers to the lengths of the sides in the form: a, b, c, etc. Considerable sophistication is needed, in my opinion, for an illustration to win the star. Please browse the relevant part of our FP gallery to see what I mean. -- Alvesgaspar (talk) 19:12, 10 April 2012 (UTC)[reply]
Comment-I'm sorry but this is Wikipedia's FPC. FPs on Commons require a WOW factor. FPs on Wikipedia require encyclopedic value. So there need not be any thing extraordinary, just something very much educationally and encyclopedic-ally illustrative. Also, AC=b, BC=a, AH=d, BH=e, AB=AH+BH=d+e=c. It's one and the same thing.--Gauravjuvekar (talk) 04:01, 11 April 2012 (UTC)[reply]
Comment:I don't know how to add the reference so I added it to the source field on the file description page. Please correct it if it's wrong--Gauravjuvekar (talk) 04:14, 11 April 2012 (UTC)[reply]
Support: does everything that is required of it that I can see under the criteria, being clear, informative and adding considerably to understanding the proof, which would frankly be unintelligible to most readers without. Now verifiable. Grandiose(me, talk, contribs) 06:50, 11 April 2012 (UTC)[reply]
Oppose as is Firstly, don't mix the notational conventions. Use a,b,c,d,... or AB,AC,BC,... to denote edges, not both. Secondly, make it clear if the textbook is a source for the proof or the images or both. If it isn't both then I'd prefer to see the proof referenced too. Thirdly, we use arrows around the "c", but not other letters, be consistent. Any proof on the image description page should match the image. Finally, it doesn't really fit the article text perfectly. JJ Harrison (talk) 22:47, 11 April 2012 (UTC)[reply]
Comment:The capital letters are used to denote triangles and angles. The small are used to denote individual segments for simplicity. The article mainly uses small letters for denoting the sides in the proof. The textbook uses capital letters(AB) to denote angles, triangles as well as sides. The proof in Wikipedia article uses capital as well as small letters so both notations should be in the image(unless we change the proof in the article). On the image description page, I used only one form of notation(capital letters). If we replace the lowercase notations in the article with two uppercase notation form, we could do away with the smaller notations in the image;even the 'c', the arrows denoting length AB and the lines extended from A and B.
Yes, the textbook is a source for the figure and the proof.(The figure is slightly different, the positions of B and C are switched and H is labeled D but that doesn't really matter much)
I didn't understand what you meant by we use arrows around the "c", but not other letters. The arrows around c denote the length of c is AB.(Just as AC is b and BC is a, AB is c). Writing it without the arrows in the same line as d and e would be confusing.
Lastly, I really don't know how to make it fit the article text.
Could you please explain the part about the 'c' and the arrows around it in detail?--Gauravjuvekar (talk) 04:02, 12 April 2012 (UTC)[reply]
Comment -- Changing my vote to strong oppose above. Come on guys! This is clearly below par among our featured drawings and doesn't even illustrate well the proof in the article. I can't see any good justification for promotion among the supporters, most of them being more or less hollow comments. -- Alvesgaspar (talk) 09:45, 14 April 2012 (UTC)[reply]
I don't understand "doesn't even illustrate well the proof in the article": it illustrates Pythagorean_theorem#Proof_using_similar_triangles very well in my opinion, and some sort of diagram there is vital to the reader. I get JJ's points but they appear to be in a useful discussion about them.
FPCR #1 requires a high technical standard, something widely assumed to not really apply to SVGs, and I don't see that any part of it is an issue here. #2 requires a high resolution, not applicable to an SVG. #3: "Is among Wikipedia's best work." ~ I don't think there's a better way of presenting this, if JJ's points are addressed. Otherwise #3 is appropriately covered by what I believe to be "diagrams and other illustrations are clear and informative." and "highly informative". #4 is clearly fulfilled, and I beleive as regards #5 that it is vital to a reader understanding the proof being given, unless they're very good at picturing it in their heads. Verifiability I believe is there, subject to any of JJ's concerns being fulfilled. Which criterion do you believe is not fulfilled? I'd hardly describe my approach as "more or less hollow". Grandiose(me, talk, contribs) 10:16, 14 April 2012 (UTC)[reply]
Comment -- Let me clarify my previous comments. First, the drawing does not illustrate well the proof in the article because it contains excessive and superfluous information. As already stated, more than once, the only features that need to be labelled are the edges. Second, the encyclopaedic value of an illustration doesn't quality if automatically as a FP. If it were so, most illustrations in the articles would be featured. The bottom line is: a picture, any picture, must be exceptional in some way to win the star. Which is not obviously the case. Alvesgaspar (talk) 12:04, 14 April 2012 (UTC)[reply]
Could you please clarify which of the criteria requires a given picture to be "exceptional"? #3 is the closest but draws a comparison between the image and similar images, where this would do well. Grandiose(me, talk, contribs) 12:32, 14 April 2012 (UTC)[reply]
From the top of the FPC page: Featured pictures are images that add significantly to articles, either by illustrating article content particularly well, or being eye-catching to the point where users will want to read its accompanying article. Taking the adage that "a picture is worth a thousand words," the images featured on Wikipedia:Featured pictures should illustrate a Wikipedia article in such a way as to add significantly to that article, according to the featured picture criteria. -- Alvesgaspar (talk) 12:44, 14 April 2012 (UTC)[reply]
Please read the entire section in the article, it won't take long. The second paragraph uses the vertices to denote triangles. Hence they are needed(A, B, C and H). But it refers to the hypotenuse as "c" being divided into "d" and "e" at point "H" and the ratios below use the a, b, c, d, e forms(in math tags). Hence both forms are needed. Change the wording in the article and I will change/remove the markings in the image accordingly. I feel that you are confusing Commons and Wikipedia FPC. Commons FP require WOW factor so this image is unlikely to pass at Commons because it's "too simple". Wikipedia FPCs require EV which I feel is satisfied by this image and hence, this nomination is at Wikipedia.--Gauravjuvekar (talk) 15:04, 14 April 2012 (UTC)[reply]
Oppose I think the image helps understanding the accompanying text in the section. I also understand c has an arrow and not d and e, but since author chose to use color on d and e, maybe it's redundant to use arrow on c. Maybe section could be rewritten to use notation AB, BC, CD instead of a, b, .... this would make a, b, c, ... useless and unclutter the diagram a bit. This also somehow meets JJ Harrison suggestion. I oppose for lack of consistency, but mostly because author used sans serif fonts. I've always seen serif fonts used in mathematics diagrams. - Blieusong (talk) 22:51, 14 April 2012 (UTC)[reply]
Comment:Wikipedia:Manual_of_Style/Mathematics#Graphs_and_diagrams doesn't give a consistent guideline. It says that matching the font with the text used in the article is better. The article uses plain text as well as LaTeX. LaTeX currently uses serif fonts in italics but I don't know which font it exactly is. I could change it in the file if I know what font LaTeX rendering uses. Please give the font and I will change it accordingly (Please state whether the file should be overwritten or a new file used).Problem is that the plain text uses sans serif while LaTeX uses serif font.
I don't think just the colour on 'c' would suffice as floating the 'c' wouldn't be much effective. I think the arrow is very much needed.--Gauravjuvekar (talk) 11:38, 15 April 2012 (UTC)[reply]
Wiki (and most web pages) displays sans serif fonts for readability reasons only (might change with new high density pixels screens), but you are probably right when you mention the font should match the article's. Unfortunately for you the article has mix of both, since the formulas are rasterized from a typical LaTeX output. I would stuck to the serif version, but now it's only a matter of tastes. My "inconsistency" and "removing useless elements points" still stand. - Blieusong (talk) 18:49, 17 April 2012 (UTC)[reply]
LaTeX uses Computer Modern font (it's actually a family of font, and a default setup LaTeX uses the roman italic variant of it for mathematical formulas). It's free to use, and I think it's be easy to find version (true type?) you can use from your vector program (Inkscape it seems). This would make your diagram more consistent with the formulas for sure. - Blieusong (talk) 18:55, 17 April 2012 (UTC)[reply]
Oppose It is indeed of reasonable technical quality and adds value to understanding one part of the article. However, it is dubious whether it is one of Wikipedia's best works. It certainly does not outshine the myriad other pictures on Wikipedia describing various different proofs of the Pythagorean theorem. For example this proof by rearrangement of parts is a well-executed vector illustration of a quite different proof which is not any less beautiful, but it is nonetheless not a Featured Picture. Furthermore, this picture does not stand on its own - it seems more an accessory to the accompanying proof rather than a clear visual demonstration of the said proof. As a side note, I agree with Blieusong regarding the inconsistency wherein the image description refers to the line segments by their vertex endpoints whereas the article uses the labelled edges. Purpy Pupple (talk) 23:16, 17 April 2012 (UTC)[reply]
Great EV and a fine photo of a stunning piece of the coast. It was only added to Dorset and Jurassic Coast today, but is superior to the image it replaced. The alternative is by the same photographer and is currently used in Durdle Door. I prefer the original for aesthetic value and context, but the alternative gives a closer view of the subject. Both photos might be better without the people, but they do give a sense of scale, and it's usually pretty busy when the weather is good.
Support (Original) I like the composition and light. Less convinced by processing. Seems noise reduction was pushed a bit too far, giving the picture a paint look when being starred at from too close (it doesn't really matter actually ;) ) - Blieusong (talk) 21:52, 5 April 2012 (UTC)[reply]
I'm very surprised by the result then. Look at the people and the steps. But nothing wrong. I don't think it's meant to be pixel peeped (which I do too much...) - Blieusong (talk) 05:39, 6 April 2012 (UTC).[reply]
This is the image I replaced: No higher resolution available. Durdle_Door_-_geograph.org.uk_-_55738.jpg (640 × 480 pixels, file size: 119 KB, MIME type: image/jpeg) Saffron Blaze (talk) 23:41, 5 April 2012 (UTC)[reply]
I Agree that the new image is better, but we should double check whether other editors are willing to IAR on the time in-article. Crisco 1492 (talk) 23:47, 5 April 2012 (UTC)[reply]
Historically the 7 day "rule" isn't something we used to follow or do, and in some circumstances it's an uncontroversial addition to an article, like an article that had no illustration before or an illustration that is so obviously important for the article that noone would object to it's addition. It's where a new image is crammed into an already stuffed article or replacing another decent image and the replacer & nominator is the creator of the image, those things are controversial, and MUCH more likely to be contested in the article, thats where the 7 day should be strictly followed. If it's uncontroversial and you see no reason why anyone would object to the addition of the image, I'd vote IAR in that case. — raekyt09:35, 6 April 2012 (UTC)[reply]
IAR and Support Original. The coloring has more EV, and having a little bit of the geographical context also adds EV. Clegs (talk) 12:44, 6 April 2012 (UTC)[reply]
Support (original). Good composition of an iconic piece of coastline. In my view the people in the image add to the experience by adding scale - often vital with landscape features such as this. PaleCloudedWhite (talk) 00:44, 7 April 2012 (UTC)[reply]
Support - a great photo of an impressive, key feature of the P of V. Amazingly the photo is devoid of C21st tourists, while the sunlight streaming across the floor cleverly decribes the windows. It is currently used in three articles and it absolutely fundamental for describing Hall of Mirrors (Palace of Versailles) and Palace of Versailles(recently added). Sionk (talk) 11:38, 10 April 2012 (UTC)[reply]
Support The room was undergoing restoration when I visited it in 2003 and I couldn't see what the fuss was about it. Now I do: great work. Nick-D (talk) 11:42, 10 April 2012 (UTC)[reply]
Oppose Poor lighting (overcast day with some lights on would look a lot better). It is tilted too (going by the chandeliers and background pillars). JJ Harrison (talk) 22:50, 11 April 2012 (UTC)[reply]
Comment: I can see the tilt but I think the lighting situation serves to show off the room, which was clearly designed with it in mind. Grandiose(me, talk, contribs) 14:42, 13 April 2012 (UTC)[reply]
Comment. Added ALT-1. I applied some chroma noise reduction to the original file and cropped out the window frames. O.J. (talk) 00:19, 29 March 2012 (UTC)[reply]
You're right! I have now updated ALT-1 accordingly. You might have to refresh your browser cache to see the changes. O.J. (talk) 10:53, 29 March 2012 (UTC)[reply]
Neutral Weak support. Compositionally, this is mind-bogglingly awesome. Encyclopedically, it's very good, and non-reproducible. But technically, not so great. The camera obviously moved during the shot (or it was a long exposure), and there's some pretty serious chromatic abberation at full-scale. -RunningOnBrains(talk)15:03, 4 April 2012 (UTC)[reply]
Comment. Faint remnants of the watermarking can still be seen if you look for them. It's very unfortunate that people would rather squeeze a few more dollars out of this painting than share it freely with the rest of the world as part of our collective artistic heritage. Kaldari (talk) 07:22, 17 April 2012 (UTC)[reply]
Voting period is over. Please don't add any new votes. Voting period ends on 21 Apr 2012 at 08:23:56 (UTC)
Original – A 19th century lithograph of a Lion tamer in cage with two lions, a lioness, and two tigers
Reason
This was previously nominated in May 2010 and failed with fairly mixed discussion. Looking at the full size image, it's absolutely stunning. Although it is not a historically accurate representation of the profession, it shows how such individuals are perceived by society. The highest resolution TIFF file cannot be uploaded due to its size.
Per criterion 5, I do not see what this currently adds to the article. You're right to say if it illustrated a discussion about the popular culture basis for lion taming then it might have an educational value, but it's not employed in that role, it's not captioned or explained. Accordingly I must oppose it on that ground: as the top of the FPC puts it "Featured pictures are images that add significantly to articles", and I just don't see it at the moment. Has potential in the future, though. Grandiose(me, talk, contribs) 19:42, 12 April 2012 (UTC)[reply]
Weak oppose - Alt 1, at 683x1024, just barely clears the FP resolution limit; the subject itself is only about 900px tall. For a 'skinny' subject like this – particularly one in captivity – we really need more resolution. There's also significant difference in color between the two images; is this representative of normal variation between specimens? TenOfAllTrades(talk) 22:22, 17 April 2012 (UTC)[reply]
I fixed the source link. Regarding sharpness: One could sharpen the image a bit, then it would look much better when viewed 1:1 (e.g. try Gimp -> sharpen -> 40). I often do not sharpen images as it degrades quality and can always be done later if required. --Kabelleger (talk) 18:51, 16 April 2012 (UTC)[reply]
Support. It is sharp enough I think. Of course it is slightly soft if you view it at 1:1 (appears to be a combination of very slight motion blur and slight back focus), but since the resolution is so high it looks reasonably sharp at, say, 2 or 3 megapixels. Purpy Pupple (talk) 22:44, 17 April 2012 (UTC)[reply]
Voting period is over. Please don't add any new votes. Voting period ends on 20 Apr 2012 at 09:40:31 (UTC)
Original – Fyodor Dostoyevsky, oil on canvas painting by Vasily Perov. Art collector Pavel Tretyakov asked in early 1872 Dostoyevsky to pose for Perov.
Reason
Large, informative, impressive, high-quality, great reproduction
Comment. As with other Google Art images, this photograph is considerably darker than other available reproductions. Before we get into a tiff about "accuracy," let me proactively point out that this has nothing to do with accuracy: the brighter the light you shine at a painting, the brighter it will appear. Google is photographing these darker so as to minimize the appearance of wear in the paint (visible in the USC image linked above as white spots, which are worn bits of paint catching the reflection of the lights). Chick Bowen15:21, 11 April 2012 (UTC)[reply]
High resolution and nice and sharp; the fairly dark background is due to the foliage overhead (the crown was hanging over the flower). The bokeh isn't too bad either. I'm surprised I got this out of my camera, to be honest.
May be; and not in the center but under the sides. This is a group of several flowers. A common plant in Asia; in my courtyard, it't fruits always attract birds, squirrels and bats besides the children. :) Jkadavoor (talk) 04:38, 18 April 2012 (UTC)[reply]
I weak support this for now. At full size parts of the flowers look like there's something wrong with how the photograph handled the red color with so many bright red tendrils in one place. Pine(talk)07:26, 18 April 2012 (UTC)[reply]
Oppose Blown highlights and awkward composition. Could do with fill light too. A photographic reflector from eBay can be had for nearly nothing, alternatively try more overcast conditions. JJ Harrison (talk) 23:52, 19 April 2012 (UTC)[reply]
I could theoretically get a hold of it, but I wouldn't expect it to last on an hour's motorcycle ride up a winding road. Oh well, I'll just focus on finding works of art and restoring posters and photographs. Crisco 1492 (talk) 12:54, 20 April 2012 (UTC)[reply]
weak support I like the composition, it captures some of the branch system and the leaves as well as the flower. The article is very picture-heavy, but this image does a lot for it. I'm not looking at it with graphics editing software, but I do agree with comments above that it's lost some information. TehGrauniad (talk) 12:08, 20 April 2012 (UTC)[reply]
Question Did you have this guy specially washed? IMO this is too bright, they are typically much dirtier and less seagull-clean. (Obviously that pic is not anywhere near this standard, but just uploaded to show colour comparison with a seagull.) It's also a pity his feet couldn't be seen. I would consider supporting a darker version of this. --99of9 (talk) 06:56, 16 April 2012 (UTC)[reply]
Per the article text: "The body plumage is white although it may become brown-stained". This one was pretty close to Seagull white. JJ Harrison (talk) 22:57, 16 April 2012 (UTC)[reply]
Comment Vertical distortion is very fixable using many programs, no? Although I don't know if that would qualify as "inappropriate digital manipulation". -RunningOnBrains(talk)21:49, 17 April 2012 (UTC)[reply]
I wouldn't think so; WP:WIAFP explicitly permits digital manipulation that is "not deceptive", and describes "perspective correction" as a "typical acceptable manipulation". TenOfAllTrades(talk) 22:08, 17 April 2012 (UTC)[reply]
Safron Blaze is right - kind of. In any three-dimensional scene, if you correct one kind of distortion, you introduce (or increase) another, so geometric compromises are inevitable, and they are exacerbated by a wide angle of view. If you take a photo looking up at a building at an acute angle such as this, you will only ever see a thin slice of what's up there at the top. You can bend or stretch it or whatever you like, but you can never 'fix' it so it looks like it was taken from a more acceptable distance. It's a fundamental limitation of perspective. Ðiliff«»(Talk)09:44, 18 April 2012 (UTC)[reply]
Comment the perspective seems wrong here, maybe that's unavoidable. Either way it's a huge improvement on the article's preceding photo. TehGrauniad (talk) 12:17, 20 April 2012 (UTC)[reply]
Comment - It looks like the bird got the full force of the flash at the base of its neck. Looking at the image on 2 monitors simultaneously (new toy), and both have the same issue. Crisco 1492 (talk) 08:46, 16 April 2012 (UTC)[reply]
Yeah, it is a bit bright, but I don't think unnaturally so. I'll post an edit at some point. On a general note, most new toys come poorly adjusted. I've added highlight adjustment information to the FPC Header. How many circles can you see? My display was set to a contrast of "81" during the process of hardware calibration. There, I can see four circles, barely discerning the fourth. If I set my monitor's contrast to "90" I can see one circle. When purchased, the monitor had a setting of "100" - no circles are visible at that setting. Set the contrast as high as possible without making the circles disappear without being really concerned about the fourth. I'd be willing to bet at least a few people at FPC can't see anything. JJ Harrison (talk)
Very useful comments... But there's more to the curve than extreme highlights. I've found that, to my tastes, a few of your photos were a bit bright throughout the range (although I don't necessarily consider this one to be one of them). It's as much personal choice as anything else. When things that are usually dark or almost black with the naked eye look washed out grey on the monitor, it could be calibration problems on the part of the viewer, or it could be overexposure/intentionally bright on the part of the photographer. The trouble is that even when the circles are visible, it doesn't necessarily translate to visible texture. I try to keep highlights (that I'm interested in keeping, anyhow) well below the absolute upper limit of visibility if possible... Ðiliff«»(Talk)11:20, 16 April 2012 (UTC)[reply]
Do we want visible texture or realism though ;)? Would one see such fine texture detail in real life? I think great feather texture would only be present if the sun was at an angle suitable to provide a large penumbral region on the body of the bird. Such an angle would likely leave important parts in shadow, compromising EV, and I don't always get framing flexibility on a boat. So yes, lighting perhaps, but the clouds-but-fine weather was not what I'd consider terrible lighting wise. JJ Harrison (talk) 12:35, 16 April 2012 (UTC)[reply]
I can see three (the third barely). I will take a look on the one I normally use later, but considering the difficulty of getting a good image of this bird I doubt I'll oppose. Crisco 1492 (talk) 10:20, 16 April 2012 (UTC)[reply]
I can see three circles too, and a lack of texture in the feather highlights... But actually, I have to reduce exposure by ~1.2 EV before I actually start to see anything there. I don't think this is an exposure problem so much as unfortunate lighting. Ðiliff«»(Talk) 11:40, 16 April 2012 (UTC) JJ Harrison (talk) 12:35, 16 April 2012 (UTC)[reply]
Voting period is over. Please don't add any new votes. Voting period ends on 18 Apr 2012 at 18:21:54 (UTC)
Original – Map of the Battle of Guam, 1944: US troops advance up and down the island.
Reason
Verifiable map of the US military now converted to SVG form, aiding in clarity. Conventional colours and scalable format. I would like to think that it would be extremely helpful to readers as it is difficult to describe textually.
Comment I realize that this map is true to the source, but wouldn't it make more sense for it to say "Battle of Guam" instead of "Island of Guam"? Makeemlighter (talk) 23:34, 24 April 2012 (UTC)[reply]
Voting period is over. Please don't add any new votes. Voting period ends on 26 Apr 2012 at 03:18:51 (UTC)
Original – Phoenix Indian School (b. 1891) where Native Americans were forced to adopt a different way of life.
Reason
I do not know much about photography, but I have been told that it is a great picture. The historic Phoenix Indain School, built in 1891, is a still standing reminder of how unfairly the Native Americans were treated in the United States.
Oppose. The image is, unfortunately, not sharp when viewed at full size. (It looks like there may have been some sort of overly-aggressive processing – noise suppression, maybe? – going on, possibly in-camera.) From a composition standpoint, I'd be inclined to crop out the large empty paved area filling the foreground, as well as the 'please pick up after your pets' bag dispenser on the right side. The palm tree in the center of the image is rather distracting; I know that we can't cut it down to get a better photograph, but it might be better if the photographer could move a bit to the left and closer to the building so that the peak of the roof and the middle, upper-level window weren't directly behind the tree's trunk. From an EV standpoint, it would help to have a little bit more information about the identity of the building itself; Phoenix Indian School states that there are three surviving buildings on the site, but it's not immediately apparent which building this one is. TenOfAllTrades(talk) 02:06, 19 April 2012 (UTC)[reply]
Oppose, on composition. Palm tree blocking the view of the building (I'm assuming you could move to the right about 10 feet and have a better line of view), and other fronds visible in the top corner. Crisco 1492 (talk) 02:09, 19 April 2012 (UTC)[reply]
Oppose Per above. I have seen the Indian School, and this is not the best representative picture. If the angle was different, and if the the picture hadn't been edited, it would probably be an alright picture. Dusty77718:24, 19 April 2012 (UTC)[reply]
Oppose I don't mean to pile on, but I thought I'd add that the image is tilted and underexposed to the hopefully-taken-as constructive criticism. JJ Harrison (talk) 23:48, 19 April 2012 (UTC)[reply]
Oppose. To phrase as constructive criticism: There's the beginnings of a great picture here. First, we need not to have taken the image with a polarizer; it plus the overprocessing gives us the underexposed look. It's probably also the reason for the noisy sky despite the efforts to suppress that noise, and the blurring of the bricks (in many other pictures like this, we have been able to make out the original bricks at full resolution).
Then there's the composition. It's great except for that palm tree right in the middle of the front, obscuring and distracting from what the picture really want to show us. A start at the next picture might be getting in front of the palm, or changing the angle so that the palm doesn't break the front facade in half. Daniel Case (talk) 01:57, 20 April 2012 (UTC)[reply]
Voting period is over. Please don't add any new votes. Voting period ends on 27 Apr 2012 at 13:16:42 (UTC)
Original – Bismarck tower in Zielona Góra (formerly the German town of Grünberg), Silesia. Bismarck towers are a unique genre of German monuments, built to honour the ex-chancellor of Prussia, Otto von Bismarck, according to a speficic standard model.Edit 1
Reason
Clear and good quality photo, demonstrating well the form of a Bismarck tower.
Voting period is over. Please don't add any new votes. Voting period ends on 27 Apr 2012 at 11:10:15 (UTC)
Original – From the article: George Washington reviews the troops near Fort Cumberland, Maryland, before their march to suppress the Whiskey Rebellion in western Pennsylvania.
Comment/neutral: to me this looks a bit average, but I don't know much about this particular area. I wonder if you could take a look at criterion 3 and reason it out a bit. In particular, although you may wish to draw instead on other parts, It illustrates the subject in a compelling way and/or [It] is not always required to be aesthetically pleasing; it might be shocking, impressive, or just highly informative... historical... images may not have to be classically beautiful at all.Grandiose(me, talk, contribs) 11:18, 18 April 2012 (UTC)[reply]
You and I seem to have a very different opinion of what is "compelling". The painting is nearly contemporary (painted one year after the events pictured), and I've yet to see another with equal EV. Colours may be a bit faded, but that is to be expected for a 200+ year old work. As Kemmelmeyer seems to have been a realist, there is little symbolism (readily apparent, at least) to draw the eye. "Wow" isn't everything - this isn't Commons; "wow" can be offset by high EV, irreplaceability, etc. Crisco 1492 (talk) 11:29, 18 April 2012 (UTC)[reply]
Support, with a comment regarding the above: this may not have "wow" in the traditional "this is incredibly gorgeous and I love to look at it" sense. What it does have, for me, is a tremendous amount of "wow" in the sese of "here is a moment in American history that has been depicted by a near-contemporary", which is a great thing for me. As to artistic merits, honestly, if I were writing a paper about this painting as an object it would be mildly condemnatory. It's not awful (I've seen worse), but it's not the greatest, either; the colors are faded, the landscape's a shade unbelievable, the soldiers are ranged too neatly in rows, and by and large it doesn't have any artistic "oomph" to me. The sad fact is, though, that much of history was depicted at first-hand by the second-rates, as it were, and this is no different.
The wingspan is about 25 cm. That's roughly the distance from the tip of your thumb to the tip of your little finger when you stretch your hand. Best wishes, --Quartl (talk) 16:49, 12 April 2012 (UTC)[reply]
Perhaps I looked at the image for too long but I don't see it. This image seems to have been taken from a hundred feet up or so, methinks. Crisco 1492 (talk) 11:39, 21 March 2012 (UTC)[reply]
C & C edit still has some distortion, the tower in right has clockwise tilt, I tried to fix this in the other version, but now I feel in my edit towers are slightly leaned to the center. ■ MMXX talk20:48, 26 March 2012 (UTC)[reply]
C&C is my preference because I like the "colours" better. Why are we distorting a historical image anyway? Touch up is fine, but correcting lens distortion seems out of place. Aaadddaaammm (talk) 07:05, 2 April 2012 (UTC)[reply]
Okay, that put us right back where we started. Perhaps a differently phrased questions: is any opposed to / would anyone oppose either edit (this question extends to JJ, who only specified the Mmxx edit) Crisco 1492 (talk) 14:26, 2 April 2012 (UTC)[reply]
Voting period is over. Please don't add any new votes. Voting period ends on 29 Apr 2012 at 06:04:34 (UTC)
Original – Greater Crested Tern (Thalasseus bergii), non-breeding plumage with a Southern Sea Garfish (Hyporhamphus Melanochir)
Reason
I think the fish adds interest and has good EV for the article. The ISO was a little high because I only had a split second to take the shot, and the light conditions were changing continuously on the day. The photo was taken handheld from a small inflatable dinghy. A friend majoring in zoology is fairly confident about the fish species. There is an existing FP, but that image is a breeding display in breeding plumage.
Comment There are some strange shaped dividing lines between blurred and unblurred rocks underneath the bird's tail, presumeably part of your processing to reduce the noise, but I think they can be done better. --99of9 (talk) 06:21, 20 April 2012 (UTC)[reply]
Weak Support. Stunning, but there's a spot under the bird's tail that looks doubled like a bad stitch. Since this is not a stitch, I'm not sure what caused it, but it's kind of distracting to have the "ghost" floating there. Clegs (engage in rational discourse) 12:54, 23 April 2012 (UTC)[reply]
Oppose. I'm not sure what it is about the composition, but I find that my eyes are don't seem to want to focus on the bird's head. I think that it's something to do with the angle of the bird's head being very similar to the shape of the horizon behind it. This is a particular issue with the low-resolution version that appears alongside the nomination (and, let's face it - that's the only version that most people will see). Far from being an "eye-catching shot", and the above supporter says, I feel that it is a perfectly normal shot of a seabird, of which we'll find thousands on wikipedia. And the issue with the head actually makes it slightly sub-par, in my opinion. (I suffer from protonopia, so perhaps it is because I think that the colour of the top of the darker patch of plumage is nearly identical to the colour of the sky. That being said, this isn't usually a problem with featured-picture candidates, so I felt obliged to make this !vote.) Bluap (talk) 14:53, 26 April 2012 (UTC)[reply]
Voting period is over. Please don't add any new votes. Voting period ends on 29 Apr 2012 at 06:10:43 (UTC)
Original – Short-tailed Shearwater (Puffinus tenuirostris), East of the Tasman Peninsula, Tasmania, Australia
Reason
This bird is of cultural and economic importance as the species was harvested for feathers, flesh and oil by the Aborigines, and then later early European settlers. There is still a commercial industry today. Approximately 23 million individuals breed in South-eastern Australia, making it one of the world's most numerous sea birds. This picture shows a common pose when they land on the water, and has the advantage of showing both under and over wing plumages.
If you own a camera, then I think you have some opportunities of your own! Pelagic trips run monthly from Westport, Washington State, which is 2.5 hrs drive if you are in Seattle. Don't forget to take some sea-sickness medication. There are plenty of opportunities on such trips to use shorter telephoto lenses. This shot was taken at a focal length of 160mm or so, for example. JJ Harrison (talk) 12:46, 20 April 2012 (UTC)[reply]
Weak Support Attractive thumbnail, but slightly disappointing a large size. The debatable "advantage of showing both" sides of wings is counter balanced by the blurriness of the right one. Of course, I can understand you might haven't had the time for fine tuning your settings, and that you needed high shutter speed. But was 1/1600th sec really necessary ? On the other hand, maybe a narrower aperture wouldn't have been enough. - Blieusong (talk) 22:25, 20 April 2012 (UTC)[reply]
The colour is more important than feather detail imo. This might indicate why I would choose a relatively high shutter speed, even on a calm day. That video was filmed with the same lens as this photo (70-200 IS). I think it gives some idea how difficult shooting with 500mm at sea can be. JJ Harrison (talk) 00:19, 21 April 2012 (UTC)[reply]
Voting period is over. Please don't add any new votes. Voting period ends on 29 Apr 2012 at 06:12:53 (UTC)
Original – Black-faced Cormorant (Phalacrocorax fuscescens), Derwent River Estuary, Tasmania, AustraliaCropCrop 2
Reason
This species is the only ocean-going Cormorant in Australia. The other species are mostly found more inland. This photograph was taken from a boat in the Derwent Estuary.
Oppose those rocks are awfully bright and large in the frame and they're OOF which is too distracting for me. How about cropping the bottom of the image? Pine(talk)08:35, 21 April 2012 (UTC)[reply]
1st crop still has too much of those blurry bright rocks for me to support. I added Alt 2 which I would support. Hopefully this isn't too late but if it is I'd support this on a re-nom. Pine(talk)04:51, 1 May 2012 (UTC)[reply]
I believe that the overexposed top-left emphasises the natural lighting of the building instead of causing any loss of detail in the image.Sanyambahga (talk) 05:31, 22 April 2012 (UTC)[reply]
The IIM-Bangalore is a highly prestigious management school in India. Photography is prohibited within the campus and I had to sought special permissions to be able to click photographs. It is difficult to find a good quality image of the institute.Sanyambahga (talk) 05:31, 22 April 2012 (UTC)[reply]
Weak Oppose. I appreciate the difficulty of getting this shot, and it will be good to illustrate the article about the school. Unfortunately, the technical side of the picture is not up to the demanding standards of an FP. The focus seems a little bit soft throughout, some areas are overexposed and some are underexposed. Clegs (engage in rational discourse) 12:59, 23 April 2012 (UTC)[reply]
Oppose: I'm sorry but the technical quality is very bad. Too much overexposed, too much chromatic aberration in the overexposed regions(top left), also CAs in the top right bright areas. Also, I would have preferred geo-location. Composition could have been slightly better if the bright area on the right could have been excluded(by taking the shot from a bit further in. Also, this doesn't have much EV in B. V. Doshi. A better description would be useful(e.g. which part of the institution is this).--Gauravjuvekar (talk) 16:50, 23 April 2012 (UTC)[reply]
I don't get why you write high resolution in quotes as if I had mentioned it. The image surpasses the requirements for FPC criteria which makes your concern moot --Muhammad(talk)19:51, 21 April 2012 (UTC)[reply]
I'm quoting the FPC. In full it says "a minimum of 1000 pixels in width or height; larger sizes are generally preferred". Just because a picture scrapes past the "minimum" doesn't mean it deserves featuring as our best work. If there were mitigating circumstances that prevented a higher resolution version, or the image was so outstanding that I'm saying to myself "thank-you so much for donating your commercially extremely valuable picture to Wikipedia", then I might be persuaded. But this is a snapshot of a guy in a room. Sub-HDTV resolution pictures should be an exception. Colin°Talk20:18, 21 April 2012 (UTC)[reply]
I am surprised to see the bully-ish commons attitude has come here as well. A minimum of 1000 in width or height, mine is greater than that in both dimensions. And FWIW, this picture is commercially valuable to me as I have earned quite a bit from it already --Muhammad(talk)07:58, 22 April 2012 (UTC)[reply]
There's nothing "bully-ish" about this. You've donated a useful picture to WP and if that's the largest size you want to donate then I don't have a problem with that. Thank you for donating. But if you want me to support it as "among Wikipedia's best work" or even to claim it is "of high resolution" then sorry, that won't do. I can get a higher resolution picture by pressing pause on my TV. The criteria clearly state that larger sizes are preferred. There's nothing extraordinary about this photograph that makes we want to accept the bare minimum. Colin°Talk08:47, 22 April 2012 (UTC)[reply]
Comment - Would a video work better, Muhammad? A video showing an entire prayer would of course be great, but I'm not sure if its allowed in Islam. Crisco 1492 (talk) 15:31, 22 April 2012 (UTC)[reply]
It's allowed but there are different lengths of prayers for different times of the day. The shortest prayer would take around 2 mins --Muhammad(talk)00:45, 23 April 2012 (UTC)[reply]
We have different articles for Subuh, Maghrib, and the other three mandatory prayers, right? I don't see why we couldn't have videos of all of them Crisco 1492 (talk) 03:42, 23 April 2012 (UTC)[reply]
Oppose Illustrative but lacking in many compositional elements including background choice, lighting (shadows) etc that would make this suitable for FP. Where are his feet? Saffron Blaze (talk) 18:47, 22 April 2012 (UTC)[reply]
Oppose I don't see much need for higher resolution. While that might reveal further details of the skin, hair or carpet, it would have no bearing on the EV of the picture, which is related to demonstrating the posture. What makes this image not be one of Wikipedia's best is the distracting background and the composition. Not only the corner is distracting, but white is not a good background for the white head cover, and blue is not a good background for blue pants. --ELEKHHT22:59, 22 April 2012 (UTC)[reply]
I'm pretty sure that's not a requirement and is rather rare template... we use the personality rights template on commons as a warning about living persons, but consent of the person being photographed is implied by posing for them. There would be only extremely rare instances where you'd want to request consent of the person in the photograph if it's not clear they're posing and are in a private place, then POSSIBLY, but if they're in a public place or it's clear they're posing then it's pretty clear they consented or consent isn't necessary (in the case of public place). — raekyt09:21, 23 April 2012 (UTC)[reply]
Actually, commons:COM:PEOPLE was changed a while back (after a WMF resolution) to require an assertion of subject consent for photos of identifiable people in private locations (which this photo appears to be). (It doesn't have to be done with a template, but IMO that is the easiest and best way to keep track of this in future.) Your statement assuming that posing implies consent to publish is incorrect - the most extreme counter-example is ex-boyfriend/girlfriend pics. --99of9 (talk) 00:42, 24 April 2012 (UTC)[reply]
It's true that it's not common yet, which is one reason I'm seeking to raise awareness, especially on content we consider featuring. --99of9 (talk) 00:42, 24 April 2012 (UTC)[reply]
I agree. Commons has a poor record for considering anything other than copyright law. Thanks for raising this 99of9, and thanks for confirming the consent, Muhammad. -- Colin°Talk07:48, 24 April 2012 (UTC)[reply]
Oppose Illustrative but lacking in many compositional elements including background choice, lighting (shadows) etc that would make this suitable for FP. Saffron Blaze (talk) 18:46, 22 April 2012 (UTC)[reply]
Oppose Nothing special and not high resolution. The article is already loaded with images, including another very similar one showing shoots (one of them should go). The lead image by Fir0002 is the best image for the article. However, all these images suffer from being downsized from their original 10+MP to 2MP (or less in the case of Fir0002's one). While such a small image might be the best we can expect after cropping some distant bird-in-flight photograph, for a studio shot it there is no excuse other than to limit what Wikipedia gets or to hide flaws. Colin°Talk 18:47, 21 April 2012 (UTC) Additionally, the photograph is not sharply focused and the fake shadow does not correspond to the lighting direction. Colin°Talk22:31, 22 April 2012 (UTC)[reply]
Update I have added two new high-quality images to the onion article and tidied its image use. File:Onion on White.JPG is the new lead image and File:Red Onion on White.JPG is an example of a red onion. Both are full-resolution images, which allows the distinctive texture of onion skin to be clearly seen. The candidate here clearly fails FPC #3. -- Colin°Talk22:31, 22 April 2012 (UTC)[reply]
I'm no gardener but don't think this image has much EV at all. What it seems to show is a normal shop-bought onion that has started growing shoots. This isn't how onions are grown, which is either from seed or from "onion sets" -- tiny onions that you plant in the ground. FYI, the article looked like this when this nomination started, where this image was the second of two showing onions sprouting shoots. It was placed in the "propagation" section, where (as explained), I don't think it belongs. The article currently shows a re-organisation of the images I did and the only reason I didn't remove this image from the article was because of the ongoing FP candidacy. Colin°Talk13:20, 28 April 2012 (UTC)[reply]
Oppose Beautiful picture, but it contributes zero EV. It's not even really in the article.. It's just kinda sitting there by itself. Dusty77723:13, 29 April 2012 (UTC)[reply]